Engine Cylinder balance results

rockyracoon

10 Year Member
Nov 23, 2005
781
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29
margate NJ
John
, I have the comp cams push rod checker tool and also have the spring compressor depicted in figure two.
I have pretty much everything needed. so I assume I should bring the cylinder to be checked to top dead center and pressurize the cylinder to hold the valve up during removal and installation of the spring. I will get to it later today and report back with my findings. I just hope I dont lose a keeper as finding a replacement in my mess of a garage could take hours.
 
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08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
766
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John
, I have the comp cams push rod checker tool and also have the spring compressor depicted in figure two.
I have pretty much everything needed. so I assume I should bring the cylinder to be checked to top dead center and pressurize the cylinder to hold the valve up during removal and installation of the spring. I will get to it later today and report back with my findings. I just hope I dont lose a keeper as finding a replacement in my mess of a garage could take hours.
Rocky,
(!) Use care when pressurizing the Cylinder or the piston or it may forced downward in its bore and rotate the Crank (!).
If you’re going this route, lock up the Crank so it cannot move either direction. Don’t Put the Car in gear against the handbrake,
Roll the motor past TDC a few degrees and note the direction the balancer is rotating so you’re aware what direction it’ll continue moving if compressed air forces the piston downward.
When i get home I’ll type up the rest, I saw this and just wanted to remind you of the above, know you’re already aware of it my friend, just being safe(er).lol!
Compressed air usage is a way, not the only way.
Best!
John
 

rockyracoon

10 Year Member
Nov 23, 2005
781
16
29
margate NJ
John
I actually did put the car into gear. I dont think anything negative happened. I was thinking about using the old school rope method. Anyway what I came up with us the push rods are actually too long as the mark is on the outboard side. I also noticed that the number to exhaust valve spring was not centered on the cup underneath as all the other are. It was actually hanging out of the cup on one side. A consequence of that is that the roller tip is slightly galled. The number I'm coming up with is 6.412 as opposed to the existing pushrods of 6.650. Did the pushrods being too long explain why I was running lean and very rough?? I ran the dry erase marker on both intake and exhaust valve and they both came up about the same with the existing pushrods.
20200630_160322.jpg
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
766
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Massachusetts
Hi Rocky,
Hope all’s going well.
Ok, was typing this up and saw your post, lol!
The Valvetrain geometry being off has clearly been accelerating wear, I’m not 100% on whether it’s causing the miss, but certainly May cause issues.The Spring being out of the base Cup reflects turbulence from the Stem being thrust against the Guide, or was never in correctly from the onset.
You’ll need to check all of them, and see if there’s any abnormal Stem to Guide clearances. Were these the Springs that came with the Heads, or the correct ones that were bought for the Cam?

Removing the Springs & Reinstall notes...

In your scenario, I’d cover the oil drain-back holes on the head with a rag, lower sitting on the motor with 2 bolts- tape off the passages on top.
Roll your motor to TDC on Combustion stroke, Use a soft faced hammer and give the
Retainers a few good perimeter taps, that’ll help the Keepers separate from the Stems.
Slowly compress the Springs, use a small prybar to rock your Retainers, Springs if need be. Once the Keepers are free, use the narrow telescopic magnet to grab them, one by one. Remove the Seals.
For the checker Spring install, apply lithium grease on the Keepers so they stick to the Stem groove. Needlenose pliers on the Stem to hold the Valve up, compress the Spring, Retainer. Stick your Keepers into the Stem grooves & back off on your Compressor until they are captured. Pull out the pliers. Done.
You really only need compressed air for re-installing your valvesprings, you can avoid it by use other methods, Rubber Washers that fit tight to your 11/32” Stems that you simply cut off after install is one I’ve used with great success.
-John
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
766
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Massachusetts
Hi,
BTW...didn’t mean you have to pull the Heads, hopefully things will be OK. Is best to tear new Head’s down these days.. it’s crazy, 2,000$ assembled Heads need disassembly and can’t be trusted.!
Will have to run some tests to confirm all is well after you get your Pushrods. If not, do what you have to- right?
Wonder if any other Springs were kicked out and came back.. How bad is that Rocker?
How wide is your sweep across the Stem with (6.412=6.400) pushrod length?
I’m sure this didn’t help how you were running, especially when looking for power. So running outboard, good thing they’re roller Rockers, saved you from wear & tear.
See some chips, hard to see if excess steel chips exist around all the Rockers..
Definitive wear path for such a short run time. That should also be OK once corrected, good it’s apart now & not later- right?
Best!
-John
Are you running 2 Springs, or 1..?
Running a Damper inside the outer Spring?
-Can you please post a side shot with your 6.400 Pushrod checker length installed with a Rocker arm installed (zero lift is fine) when you can?
 
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rockyracoon

10 Year Member
Nov 23, 2005
781
16
29
margate NJ
John
So in the photo you can see where the sweep is on the outboard from my existing 6.650 rods and after trying the stock rods the mark is on the inboard side. After using my checker I actually came up with 6.342 not 6.412. as previously mentioned. So im not so sure the tfs cam has much of a reduced base circle if so only slight. So the 6.650 rods I guess were the reason my ptv clearance was too close when I tried to go with 4* of advance. Springs are single and came assembled on the heads.im hoping the rods being too long was the cause of my running lean issue. I think I mis spent a couple hundred bucks on intake manni gaskets.
 

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
766
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Massachusetts
Hi,
TFS1 Cam is ground on a slightly reduced base circle, ramp isn’t ridiculous, visible with non adjustable Rockers. You’re running 2.02/1.60 Valves now, that is going to get you tighter regarding P/V clearance.
89’-93’ 5.0’s with a TF 170cc head, TFS1 Cam, stock flattops, I can usually reach 4 Degrees of both Cam advance, and retarded. But Not every time...
I look for a min. .080 Intake, .125 Exhaust P/V clearance on stock 89’-93’ 302 h.o’s, w/stock bottom ends.(5/16” Rod bolts).
Yes, very possible the Mechanical issue you had was hanging things up and causing an overall lean condition. It was not an ideal environment, for certain. Valve-train will certainly run more consistent once corrected with 6.342“ (round to 6-11/32” (6.343”)) Pushrods.
Know the Spring load rating? You need around a 125lb (Seated) and around 330lb (Open) Springs for that Cam, I’ve seen soft Springs throw a good Hydraulic Cam’s benefits and versatility off.
Best!
-John
 

rockyracoon

10 Year Member
Nov 23, 2005
781
16
29
margate NJ
Here is the photos.
Having issues with the lightened springs in regards to seeing the sweep. The humidity is messing with the dry erase color in on the valve stem. I have had more success with the solid lifter as far as seeing the sweep. Even then I had to clean the top of the stem and the roller tip with carb cleaner and also dry them with my heat gun before coloring the valve stem (humidity) i must have done the mock up 15 times. The number I have decided on is 6.300.
 

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08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
766
111
53
Massachusetts
Hi Rocky, good pic’s.
D get all the Spev Best way is to get a buddy to help get a sweep,You can also skim the roller tip with thins, it’ll list how to test fo accuracy, Rockers utilized in the past, as the valve surface,yes, non permanent stem coatings bleed off...
#1 is an old pic of a 302 in coil bind
2) is the result of the Pushrod being incorrect, making the Valvestems walk destroying valve seals.
3) New TF springs, TF#1 Cam
4) GZt40 ports, same as yours.
5) How much smaller the same gasket is on your imported GT40 lower..
 

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Last edited:

08GT500

Active Member
Jul 12, 2018
766
111
53
Massachusetts
Hi Rocky,
Best way is to get a buddy to help get a sweep,You can also skim the roller tip with thin grease , or an ink sponge (craft store for 10$) which lays down a good path, doesn’t dry quite as fast Once you’ve reached Pushrod ratio utilized in the past, as the valve surface is the same angle as stock.
Strike a permanent in black, etc
line across Rockers side trunnion and CL Rotate the motor by hand, indicator on the #1 valve retainer, a breaker bar on the lower crank bolt, set your Cam at 50% valve lift, and lock down you at zero lash.
Did you get a Chance to degree the Cam, or are you not going deeper in to theshortblock?
Best!
Jokn
 
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