Progress Thread Darn Stock Block Problems - Getting the Engine Together

[a91what]

Check out 64bittuning.com
you can try this kit. https://64bittuning.fwscart.com/SBF_Crank_Trigger_Kit/p5216210_18356778.aspx

I personally use this kit as I make my own sensor mounts with a timing pointer some sheet metal.
https://64bittuning.fwscart.com/Ford_Small_Block_36-1_Crank_Trigger_Wheel/p5216210_18326462.aspx
if your balancer requires a spacer they sell one as an addition.

 

[2Blue2]

its all looking really nice!

 

[Hoytster]

Made a relay and fuse panel to handle all the engine management components as well as separate panel to handle the power for my guages/lighting, transbrake, and line lock. I really want to do a digital dash but I'll wait to do that down the road.

I made the engine management relay and fuse panel to fit in the stock ECU location.

I made the accessory fuse and relay panel to fit up under the drivers side dash, beside the factory fuse panel, where the wiper control module was located. This panel will have outputs for dash lighting as well as ACC on power.

This is the relay panel for the cooling fan control. I'm using a main 40 amp relay to control power to (2) Hella SSD relays that I am going to use to drive my dual fans using PWM control from the MS3x controller. I mounted these in the driver side fender well, so I made this panel with wings to help deflect any rain/moisture that might get kicked up from the tires. Don't plan on having this car in the rain, but just in case.

 

[Hoytster]

I'm still trying to figure out where I want to mount my trans brake and line lock buttons. Eventually, I'd like to do the steering wheel mount controls but am planning on waiting to do that later when I decide to replace the stock steering wheel. I picked up one of the cup holder center consoles, so I'm considering mounting it somewhere on there.....

 

[a91what]

Keep in mind only a few of the inputs on the ms are capable of 12v input as built.

 

[Hoytster]

Keep in mind only a few of the inputs on the ms are capable of 12v input as built.

There's more then one? I was planning on using PIN 29 on the MS3x connector for my trans brake input (launch control) and then using mini 12V relays to provide a ground input for any other function I would need too.

 

[Hoytster]

Got my MS3x kit in the mail on Tuesday and started to assemble it last night. As most say, the kit was well packaged and seems pretty straightforward to assemble. I ordered the knock sensor module for this setup so I'll be installing that in the kit and giving that a go.

I'm disappointed the kit no longer comes with a black anodized case as advertised. I didn't know this until I opened the kit up and saw the bare aluminum case. I talked to DIYautotune and they said they made the change recently so they didn't have to increase the cost of the kit. I would have rather paid the increased cost as I was planning on having the ecu semi-exposed in my interior. I don't want to paint it because it will get beat up where I planned on installing it, so I might just have to send it out to get anodized for an exorbitant cost to do one case. First world problems I know, but I'm picky. They haven't got back to me as to whether they have the separate black case they list in stock on the their site, so I'm assuming no.

Didn't get far, 10PM came around quick yesterday.

Finally got to use my monitor setup in my garage for it's intended purpose, instead of just watching car videos. I have this and two other monitors setup in different spots in the garage so I can put up schematics/ect while working on stuff. I use the one by the front of my car all the time, just never used this one to do anything productive.

 

[a91what]

No no no.... dont use mechanical relays. I can send you a small module that converts the 12v signals to ground input for the ECU... all done solid state with protection and flyback. I need someone to do testing for me.

 

[Hoytster]

I'll have to see what I'll need for 12V input, the only one I think I need at this point would be the trans brake input which is the only control that I have 12V for minimal delay. I'm sure I can come up with others

Can I ask what the concern is with the mech relay? I understand the need for flyback on the coil side, just didn't think pulling a relay leg to ecu signal ground for the input would cause an issue. But I'm learning there are nuances with this ECU.

 

[a91what]

nope no issue with doing it that way guys have for years. I just put 7 relays on a board the size of one.

 

[a91what]

5 12v- ground tiggers for inputs the AC ect require a 12V input the way its wired on a fox. I also have 3 outputs on the board, 2 solid state capable of 12v sourcing up to 5amps you can pwm these but I have not done any testing on them yet, I also have a small 20A relay on the board.

 

[Hoytster]

Sounds like a well thought out module. I'll give it a shot as that will cut down on a lot of wiring. Just let me know what you want for it and how you'd like me to get payment to you.

 

[Steel1]

What PWM controller are you using ?

 

[Hoytster]

What PWM controller are you using ?

For cooling fan control, I am going to PWM (2) Hella H41773001 SSD relays directly from MS. I'm a little concerned about motor noise by doing this because from what I understand, the PWM frequency capability from MS is lower then desirable, but I've heard people have had success doing it this way.,

If all works out, I might also control my fuel pump this way.

 

[a91what]

FWIW I have zero motor noise from my fan and I use 11HZ on the pwm relay [that's very low] its a motor not a solenoid, noise can be induced by circulating currents... add a diode across the motor to protect everything and alleviate that, commonly called a freewheel diode for solenoids.. or TVS diode.
IOSQ045 are cheap, banded end to 12v across the motor [ or in the harness] Ground__ diode -->|-- __12v

I can send one with the module for you

 

[Hoytster]

I should be more specific, I was referring to audible noise from the fan/motor assembly that can occur with low freq PWM signals. Mainly the PWM noise that can occur in a fan/motor assembly when controlling it in this fashion. It wasn't a huge concern of mine since fan blade noise tends to be the largest noise generator, just a factor I considered. That and the sound from my straight-cut gear V1 is pretty much all you hear when you're in front of the car.

If it was a problem, which is sounds like it won't be since you're driving at 11HZ, then I had considered looking into a slow down capacitor to address that issue. That would also address the inductive kick issue. If I understand what you said above, then you are talking about the inductive kick that can occur on the ground when driving a motor with PWM. I hadn't even thought about that as being a possible issue, but as you said, probably not going to be a problem in this application.

 

[a91what]

Anytime you drive an inductive load and remove power from it a large voltage spike can occur across the leads. This voltage can measure in the hundreds or more volts, it will build up to whatever value is necessary to bridge the contact gap. This is what the TVS diode is for its transient voltage suppression, without this you can destroy the pwm relays or cause undue harmonic noise. The capacitor will be for some amount of ripple current suppression and will help with sudden current demand. I assume you will wire this in parallel with the motor, I can help with the math for sizing a capacitor if you know the inductance of the motor at the driven HZ.

 

[Hoytster]

From my knowledge, the slow down capacitor circuit (combined with a base resistor) helps to reduce the slew rate of the PWM signal, thereby smoothing it. This should reduce the audible noise created by a low frequency on/off PWM signal going to the fan since the motor ramps up and down gradually. This also reduces the inductive kick(back) that is generated in the motor when the PWM turns instantly off since it essentially ramps down instead of an instant off. This is all before the transistor controlling the fan itself.

After drawing out the circuit and doing some initial calcs, I realized this is probably way to complicated. I will need to scope the circuit out to really get my values for the cap and base resistor correct. I'm just going to do as you suggested and install a TVS diode across the fan load to protect the SSR's and go from there.

 

[Hoytster]

I'm just about finished up with the basic part of the MS3 build. I have almost all the basic components fitted and have verified orientation of diodes/ect. SPR1 and SPR2 are connected for future CANBUS comm and I'm going to use SPR3 and SPR4 for my knock sensor inputs. I'll probably end up only use one channel of knock as most have suggested.

I did fook up one thing that they explicitly call out in the assembly manual . I accidentally started to solder chip U4 (circled in red) into U7's spot (circled in yellow). I de-soldered all the legs on that chip but wasn't able to get one leg out and ended up breaking it off. Soooooo, I'm waiting for that $3 chip to get here so I can do my initial tests of the board.

Successfully added the knock module to the processor board. At least I didn't mess this one up.

 

[a91what]

From my knowledge, the slow down capacitor circuit (combined with a base resistor) helps to reduce the slew rate of the PWM signal, thereby smoothing it. This should reduce the audible noise created by a low frequency on/off PWM signal going to the fan since the motor ramps up and down gradually. This also reduces the inductive kick(back) that is generated in the motor when the PWM turns instantly off since it essentially ramps down instead of an instant off. This is all before the transistor controlling the fan itself.

After drawing out the circuit and doing some initial calcs, I realized this is probably way to complicated. I will need to scope the circuit out to really get my values for the cap and base resistor correct. I'm just going to do as you suggested and install a TVS diode across the fan load to protect the SSR's and go from there.

only just a bit, I am interested in seeing your results and the cap size necessary. If it works out I may do the same.