Progress Thread Darn Stock Block Problems - Getting the Engine Together

Cylinder head decisions.....

I currently have a set of TW170 heads that I was planning on sending out to get CNC ported by either TEA or Fox Lake. After talking to TEA yesterday, I'm starting to second guess that since the guy I talked to didn't seem real confident they could get them to a 205 intake runner. Also, after talking to him it seems I will be $1000+ into the heads just to get them ported and rebuilt using my existing valvetrain (springs, retainers, valves, studs, ect). The price would go up if I needed anything replaced. The port job alone is $650+.

Looking at Fox Lake, it looks like I would need to go their Stage 3 porting program to approach the flow numbers of an 11R 205 head. That cost is $1295 unassembled or $1799 with a valve job, new springs, and a refresh.

Fordstrokers currently has the Trick Flow 11r 205 heads for $1899.00 with free shipping. Brand new everything, better valve train, better valve angles, ect. Seems like a no brainer.

Am I missing anything here? Has anybody had experience having their TW170's CNC ported to support a 363? Is there any benefit to TEA or Fox Lakes CNC porting compared to the 11R 205 heads that Fordstrokers offers?

I'm thinking I could sell my current TW170's for around $600-700 as is, buy the 11R 205's from FordStrokers for $1899.00 and save shipping costs, and have a brand new set of heads with all new components and possibly still have better flow capabilities then what I could get from porting my TW170's (and probably be cheaper).
 
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The 11R 205 head is amazing, the chamber design is very modern and requires much less timing than a typical cylinder head.

As for port size a 205 will do very well on an NA motor up to 400cid. I think it would be silly to send out yours if you can get new for a similar price, I am sure you can off load the 170's and cut the cost of the new heads in half.
 
The 11R 205 head is amazing, the chamber design is very modern and requires much less timing than a typical cylinder head.

As for port size a 205 will do very well on an NA motor up to 400cid. I think it would be silly to send out yours if you can get new for a similar price, I am sure you can off load the 170's and cut the cost of the new heads in half.

Good info. I've heard nothing but good reviews of the 11R design but didn't know they can take less timing as well.

It surprised me when I saw the price on Fordstrokers this morning for their 11R 205's. When I looked at those heads before everyone else wanted around $2200+ for the configuration I wanted, and is why I was leaning toward having my existing 170s worked. Now it does seem silly.
 
I would go with the 11R's. If I ever assemble a 331/347/363 long block, i'll likely offload my TFS170's and slap some 11R's on there. I've heard nothing be great things about those heads.
 
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I would go with the 11R's. If I ever assemble a 331/347/363 long block, i'll likely offload my TFS170's and slap some 11R's on there. I've heard nothing be great things about those heads.
Do you think $600-700 is a fair price to ask for a set of used TW170's that are in good condition but not rebuilt? I checked them with my straight edge after cleanup and I couldn't get a .0015 feeler guage through on the cylinder head surface.
 
I think that's fair. If they look clean, I would be you could even go $800ish. All depends on local market. They can be had for $1320 new, so I think $700 would definitely get people interested. If you have time, start out higher and knock off $50 every now and then until they sell
 
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As an example... the 11R 190 heads on a typical 10:1 331cid engine running 93 octane.
Using trap speed as a tuning guide, with 2 passes on each tune change and using the median value.

30* was the baseline for the tune nothing crazy, 29* at 2500 and taper to 30* by redline.
We bumped it to 31* by redline and slowed down by 2mph
We then dropped the timing 27* at 2500 taper to 29* redline and picked up 3mph over the baseline run
[air temps were better on the last run by 4*] but I did not think this had any major effect on the outcome in general.

on a different day we tried dropping it further but slowed down. better fuel would have allowed us to run more timing but streetcar.
 
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I agree.
I'm not a fan of building something you can just buy.

I'd guess in today's market TW's are worth $800+
At $700 it even crosses my mind to buy them and i have nothing to put them on, lol.
That's like x head pricing.
 
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11R 205's it is. Thanks for the advice guys, just need a little push.

I ended up putting in my order for the heads and short block as well this afternoon from Fordstrokers. Going with the 363 SHP block setup for 900-1000 HP with their fox pan/pump package and around 9.3:1 static CR. They said they are about 3-5 months out, so I have a little bit of a wait.
 
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It's been awhile, had some personal :poo: I needed to concentrate on and fix over the last 6 months. Still waiting for the engine to show up. I talked to Nicole over at Ford Strokers a couple weeks ago and they said they should have it done this month. Not bitching, I know everything is screwed up in the supply chains, I'm just getting a little excited. It's given me some opportunity to keep working on the Systemax II intake to fix the core shift issue between the upper and lower, and open her up a little bit more.

I'm at the point with the intake I would have to weld the lower and cut the upper to go any further, so I'm just going to clean it up and run it as is. I built myself a differential pressure meter, hooked up to a shop vac, that I can put on each port exit to measure the pressure drop. I've been able to increase the potential flow of the intake ~15% from the original unported upper and tmoss ported lower setup I had. Also was able to even out the differences from port to port. Hopefully it works, I would never have taken it this far if the core shift wasn't so bad between the upper and lower.


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We might need a picture of this flux capacitor contraption
It's way simpler then it sounds. Basically a 4" PVC tube with a connection for the shop vac on one end, and a gasketed connected on the other end that gets put over the port. Then there is a plate in the middle of the 4" tube that has a hole drilled into it. The differential pressure ports are placed on either side of the plate. This gives you a standard pressure drop reading through the orifice. I'm using a Dwyer differential pressure sensor that they use in HVAC ducting systems. When you place the contraption over a port you can measure the pressure difference from port to port, or while you are porting that port to see if you are making any difference in the flow capability. There is a way to actually measure CFM this way, but I haven't got that far. I'll try to get some pics up soon.
 
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I received the 363 short block and heads from Fordstrokers last week. This thing looks awesome! The surface finish on the deck looks a little wavy in the pics because of the rust preventative on it. I ordered a set of Felpro 1134SD4 head gaskets and ARP 1/2" head studs so I can fit the heads and check the lower intake port match.

The cam they ground for me looks pretty healthy for a hyd roller. Here are the specs:
109 intake center
113 Lobe separation
.588 INT/.585 EXT
248 INT/256 EXT Duration at .050

I was thinking of running a set of Morel 5323 Linkbar lifters on this combo. Does anybody have any experience with these lifters? This engine should make power to 6500-6800 and my max RPM will be 7K.

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Ended up ordering a set of Morel 5323 link-bar lifters and Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum 1.6 roller rockers a couple weeks ago. The rockers just shipped today and I'm still waiting for confirmation on shipment of the lifters. Hoping they don't take too much longer as I'd like to get my heads bolted down and start setting up my drivetrain. What an "interesting" time to build an engine......

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I installed the water pump and used a set of new water pump bolts/studs from foxresto. Pump is a painted GMP 125-1560P High Volume with Fel-pro gaskets. Also installed a Ford Performance 0oz damper with a new ARP bolt. This damper was only ~$230 from CJ's and looks and feels like a really nice piece, well worth the money imo. I also had to get a spacer with this damper to work with the stock accessories. I'm thinking about turning this spacer down and fitting a crank trigger wheel between it and the damper for my required crank trigger setup.


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I test fit my Explorer cam sensor and everything seems to line up correctly on initial fit. I still need to verify gear material with my cam, pretty sure I need to change it out to composite.

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Anybody have experience with this timing pointer and distributor hold down from UPR? I was going to clean up my stock pieces, but for the price of these I might just go new. Plus they look a lot better and I have an idea on how to use the timing point as a mount for my crankshaft sensor.


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