Driving a stick...

LI98GTStang · Jan 6, 2004

merc123 said:
What is the resting the foot on the clutch I hear about. Is that as simple as it sounds of simply resting your foot on the clutch when it is out?

Good stuff with the howstuffworks.com. I forgot about that. Never understood how the manual tranny worked.

Basically, all those parts are so close together, so just resting your foot (often referred to as riding the clutch) can apply a small amount of pressue so that it can prematurely wear the parts out.

GoBabyVroommm · Jan 7, 2004

The car I learned off of to drive stick was my stang. The first 2 months coming to a stop i use to shift backward to first and then neutral. I found that i don't have to do that and it was hurting the clutch. When i'm coming to a stop i just put the damn thing in neurtal and let it come to a stop. As of when to switch, like they said just listen to your motor.

merc123 · Jan 7, 2004

I did learn something on accident. I was @ a dealership and started the car up. I forgot I didn't put it in neutral and I went to let the clutch out and the car started to move forward. I put the clutch back in before it stalled and put it into neutral.

I learned that the clutch can move the vehicle without any gas pedal. Now I just have to practice that.

Snarf · Jan 7, 2004

merc123 said:
should I tap the gas to try to match RPM's of the lower gear so it's not just a big jerk?

WHen Im not tryin to race around, I do slow, controlled downshifts. Say, for example, I'm driving my Bronc down an interstate off ramp with lots of run off before the stoplight:

I'll pull in the off ramp doing 70 mph @ 2k rpm in 5th, drop into fourth at aprox. 1500 rpm, and let the clutch out semi- slowly so there is no jerking or slamming of parts, like reversely slipping the clutch. Drop into third at about 1500 again, (riding the brakes gently the whole time). By this time Im usually almost to eh stoplight so I just put it in neutral and coast the rest of the way in.

My general synopsis is, when im not tryin to go fast, I downshift at what sounds to be a little higher than Idle speed. (again, approx 1500). Now, when I AM trying to go fast, I'll toss in a downshift at the point where the powerbadn is starting to fall off, of if Im in too tall of a gear for a hill. You dont want to just drop the clutch and then gas it, coz you'll get a big slam ( like you mentioned) You need to time givign it an appropiate amount of gas, with releasing the clutch, to avoid the driveline slap.

It'll take a little time ( a week or so) but you'll get it down no problem.
This is a hard subject to explain so I hope I did an decent enough job for others to understand

Snarf · Jan 7, 2004

merc123 said:
I did learn something on accident. ....
I learned that the clutch can move the vehicle without any gas pedal. Now I just have to practice that.

The clutch is the part of the tranny that transfers energy from the engine to the rear wheels. When you tried to start it, the starter solenoid on the engine was spinning the engine tryin to start it (of course), and since the car was in gear still, the clutch ( being engaged) tried to transfer that energy to your wheels. Hence the surge forward.

Here is a GREAT guide on the inner workings of a manual trannie. If you understand the basic of how it functions, using one should become easier.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

Hope this helps- it explains the workings of a MT better than I can

merc123 · Jan 7, 2004

You got beat to the punch on howstufworks.com snarf...

Snarf · Jan 7, 2004

merc123 said:
You got beat to the punch on howstufworks.com snarf...

Yeah... I just noticed.. lol. Darnit- I'll get you guys next time!!

*shakes fist*

GoBabyVroommm · Jan 7, 2004

merc123 said:
I did learn something on accident. I was @ a dealership and started the car up. I forgot I didn't put it in neutral and I went to let the clutch out and the car started to move forward. I put the clutch back in before it stalled and put it into neutral.

I learned that the clutch can move the vehicle without any gas pedal. Now I just have to practice that.

When i learned that i was like amazing.

Rustang Cobra · Jan 7, 2004

Snarf said:
WHen Im not tryin to race around, I do slow, controlled downshifts. Say, for example, I'm driving my Bronc down an interstate off ramp with lots of run off before the stoplight:

I'll pull in the off ramp doing 70 mph @ 2k rpm in 5th, drop into fourth at aprox. 1500 rpm, and let the clutch out semi- slowly so there is no jerking or slamming of parts, like reversely slipping the clutch. Drop into third at about 1500 again, (riding the brakes gently the whole time). By this time Im usually almost to eh stoplight so I just put it in neutral and coast the rest of the way in.

My general synopsis is, when im not tryin to go fast, I downshift at what sounds to be a little higher than Idle speed. (again, approx 1500). Now, when I AM trying to go fast, I'll toss in a downshift at the point where the powerbadn is starting to fall off, of if Im in too tall of a gear for a hill. You dont want to just drop the clutch and then gas it, coz you'll get a big slam ( like you mentioned) You need to time givign it an appropiate amount of gas, with releasing the clutch, to avoid the driveline slap.

see although correct in your downshifting, you put a lot more wear on your clutch and syncros by downshifting this way, double clutchign allows you to pop the clutch out smoothly and quickly (and not have to wait for the syncros to do their work)

and in regards to You dont want to just drop the clutch and then gas it, coz you'll get a big slam ( like you mentioned) You need to time givign it an appropiate amount of gas, with releasing the clutch, to avoid the driveline slap.

you can drop the clutch and gas it, half the time i downshift from 4th to 2nd, i chirp the tires and take off smoothly

im going 40 in 4th and want to overtake someone, i just put the shifter in neutral, blip the gas , throw it in 2nd and floor it while popping out the clutch (i do it so smoothly and quickly now that people dont even realize ive double clutched)

theres an example of me downshifting in the video of me racing my friends camaro
cobra vs camaro

fast forward to 0:16 for the downshift (thats me double clutching from 4th to 2nd)

and again in my 100shot video
100shot video

fast forward to 2:10 for the downshift (again thats double clutching from 4th to 2nd)

its worth learning

Rustang Cobra · Jan 7, 2004

they had this same discussion on the 3si.org forums (3000gt/stealth)
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=190162

read the post by chunsangp on the First page
hes does a much better job of explaining what im trying to explain above

PS. the double clutching im talking about, has NOTHING to do with the fast and the furious....

merc123 · Jan 7, 2004

But I'm granny shifting and not double clutching like I should! *whines*

JimC · Jan 7, 2004

Many of the responses have given you correct advice about down shifting and blipping the gas to match the lower gear rpm. It takes a bit of practice but your clutch will thank you. Besides, your saving your brakes. However, you never downshift into 1st.
I haven't bought into double clutching thread. Today's modern day manual transmissions don't require it.

merc123 · Jan 7, 2004

I knew about the never downshift to 1st. Never understood why though.

As far as double clutching, I'll give it a try AFTER I get used to driving the car. I'll just use the brakes instead of downshifting to a stop.

With upshifting, something new has been brought to my attention. You can:
1. Depress clutch
2. Shift to next gear
3. Release clutch fully
4. Apply gas
Correct, or do you combine 3 & 4. That is what I was always taught. Apply gas as you release clutch. Can you just release the clutch and not give any gas and it'll keep going?

I drove a wrangler one time that when driving at slow speeds you had to just push the clutch in a very little bit so it didn't jerk like it was about to run out of gas.

CottonBurnerz · Jan 7, 2004

Ok, so from what I have read in this thread, riding the clutch is a no-no? That means that if I want to come to a stop at the light, I shouldn't push the clutch all the way in and ride it to the light with the brake? If so, what would be the best thing to do to come to a stop?

Say I'm driving 30 mph and what to stop at a light

1. put in neutral without pushing in the clutch and use the brake
2. put in N after the clutch is pressed all the way in
3. down shift to 2nd, rev to match the rpm, release the clutch then brake?
4. down shift to 2nd, slowly release the clutch then brake?
5. many many more ways

All I want to know is what would be the best way to come to a stop while minimizing the wear out of the tranny? Thanks

and also, what would be the best RPM for the engine to run/cruise at ALL gears? for milage and engine/tranny purpose? Thanks again

merc123 · Jan 7, 2004

Here's something I've found about downshifting to stop. I've read this on a few sites.

So, let's think this through: We want to save wear on brake shoes, cheap and easily replaceable parts, by transferring that wear and stress to the clutch and the engine. Brake pads are much easier and cheaper to replace than clutches and the added stress on your engine can shorten its life. At best, you're not saving anything. At worst, you could actually be inviting expensive repairs.

LI98GTStang · Jan 7, 2004

CottonBurnerz said:
Ok, so from what I have read in this thread, riding the clutch is a no-no? That means that if I want to come to a stop at the light, I shouldn't push the clutch all the way in and ride it to the light with the brake? If so, what would be the best thing to do to come to a stop?

Say I'm driving 30 mph and what to stop at a light

1. put in neutral without pushing in the clutch and use the brake
2. put in N after the clutch is pressed all the way in
3. down shift to 2nd, rev to match the rpm, release the clutch then brake?
4. down shift to 2nd, slowly release the clutch then brake?
5. many many more ways

All I want to know is what would be the best way to come to a stop while minimizing the wear out of the tranny? Thanks

and also, what would be the best RPM for the engine to run/cruise at ALL gears? for milage and engine/tranny purpose? Thanks again

I can only speak for myself here as it seems everyone has their own driving style. To minimize clutch and brake wear, in the situation you are talking about, when approaching a red light, I take my foot off the gas and let the car wind down, letting the engine/transmission essentially do some braking while at the same time applying the brakes lightly (if needed). If the light turns green, I press in the clutch, choose the appropriate gear that the car needs to be in and go. I never put the car in first while the car is still rolling. 2nd gear is the lowest I go if not at at full stop.

If the light is going to be red and i need to do a full stop, I will apply the brakes harder (still in gear) and just before the engine is going to start to rumble (approx. 1krpm), I push in the clutch. This saves both the brakes, letting it wind down, and clutch as your not downshifting. Also a safety matter, I know the car will not stall on me rendering the brakes difficult to depress. If you just throw it in neutral, the car goes to idle and more likely to stall than if you leave it in gear and also are relying on the brakes to do the work 100% to stop. You will more than likely be going through many brake pads and rotors this way over the life of the car.

As far at which rpm to be at I let the traffic, and road type dictate that. In traffic and windy roads, I tend to leave it in the lower gear so the car is in it's power band more if I I'm on a wide open road, tend to be in a higher number gear - so lower revs.

drichard · Jan 7, 2004

Ok... If you just learning, here is what you need to know, no magic into that : On flat : upshift when you engine rev high (RPMs depend on you driving style, but the sooner you shift, the more fuel economy you get), downshift when you need more acceleration (torque, if you want to overpass for example, or you need emergency acceleration), or when you RPMs drop low (at the extreme when your engine is going to stall). That's basically all you need to know to start driving a stick.

The clutch release is not a problem when you upshift, you can let go fast. When you downshift, you need to release it more slowly and apply some gas... don't worry, you'll know if you are releasing too fast or not giving enough gas when you end up face on the dashboard .

I would not recommend the 4th to 2nd shift at first... stick (no joke...) to 1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th-4th-3rd-2d-N... When you stop, do not shift to neutral to soon, because in neutral you loose all engine break of course... that can be a good recipe for a new stick driver to end up in the car in front of him. You know you HAVE to release when you feel your engine wanting to stall...

When you shift, press the clutch and move the stick from, say 2nd to N to 3rd in one smooth motion, then release the clutch.

After few days/weeks you'll be an expert... It all about feeling you car and keeping it at the right RPM for the situation.

I actually had a female friend you never got than she her car would stall when she tried to climb a sharp slope in 5th... go figure... she always thought there was something wrong with her car...

LI98GTStang · Jan 7, 2004

merc123 said:
I knew about the never downshift to 1st. Never understood why though.

As far as double clutching, I'll give it a try AFTER I get used to driving the car. I'll just use the brakes instead of downshifting to a stop.

With upshifting, something new has been brought to my attention. You can:
1. Depress clutch
2. Shift to next gear
3. Release clutch fully
4. Apply gas
Correct, or do you combine 3 & 4. That is what I was always taught. Apply gas as you release clutch. Can you just release the clutch and not give any gas and it'll keep going?

I drove a wrangler one time that when driving at slow speeds you had to just push the clutch in a very little bit so it didn't jerk like it was about to run out of gas.

Yes, do 3 and 4 together if accelerating, with the edge going to 3. If you start to apply the gas first the revs will climb quickly before the clutch starts to grab, then quick go down as it grabs. You can release the clutch and not give any gas, but the car will slow down as you will loose your momentum. Sounds like the Jeep's clutch wasn't properly adjusted. Speaking of, don't forget to adjust the clutch every so often as the clutch grabs higher.

merc123 · Jan 7, 2004

Great stuff.

StangLou · Jan 7, 2004

Good thread

From what Ive read so far, you guys are right on. As for slowing down to a light... say Im doing 45 in 4th, I put in the clutch, go into 3rd, let it out fairly slowly so it doesnt jerk on me, and continue to do this thru 2nd. I know your not supposed to downshift into 1st, Ive tried in mine of course , but it seems like I would have to slam it into gear, it doesnt go in easily so I backed off. Now I just let the engine go down as far as it can in 2nd right before it will want to stall and put in the clutch, and apply brakes to stop, then I go into N.
I know rev matching is cool , but if you are trying to stop in a hurry for a light or whatever, whats the point? Your putting the rpms up higher so it will just take longer to slow down right, or am I missing something? I know just letting the clutch out when I downshift lets the engine do most of the work for me so I dont have to brake excessivly, and if I have to come to a sudden stop, downshifting 2 gears or so and moderate brakes will do my car just fine.
Again if someone could explain why I would want to rev match when trying to slow down quickly I would appreciate it.

Driving a stick...

LI98GTStang

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