Edelbrock 4.6 SOHC Intakes - 2 of them

tjm73 · Feb 7, 2006

trinity_gt said:
I disagree. The 3V motor is for all intents a 2V shortblock with kick-ass high-flowing cylinder heads. Right out of the box it's making 40HP more than a PI 2V. The fact that the only major difference between these engines is the heads & intake suggests that there is potential for the aftermarket to give us something more than just PI heads ported to various degrees.

We're not talking about 3V heads. We're talking about 2V SOHC heads. And while I am sure there are improvements to be had. With the restrictions just 2 valves place on power production, the OEM PI heads are plenty sufficent for pretty much everyone. And if you need a bit more you get ported PI's. Ifyou need more than that, you'll have to wait till enough other people need more than that to justify the development costs.

trinity_gt said:
Hell, even FRPPs SVO castings outflow the PI parts...

I have seen data that both supports and refutes this claim.

trinity_gt said:
It's not like a "package" involving heads and an intake doesn't have precedent: such packages have been available for the pushrod engines for a good while now and sell like hotcakes.

No one said that the precedent hasn't been set. I merely pointed out that the OEM heads are more than sufficent for serious ammounts of power. Ported OEM heads even more so.

trinity_gt said:
To me it's still a mystery why Edelbrock, to name but one, continues to pour aluminum into molds for such obscure applications as Oldmobile 307cid intake manifolds or AMC 343cid cylinder heads while heretofore leaving the late model modular market completely high & dry. Perhaps these manifolds, if they pan out, indicate that they're finally getting a clue.

They still make those parts because, believe it or not, people hot rod things other than Mustangs. Those manifolds and heads are reworks of existing Hi-Po parts. Parts development for late model cars has 2 very large hurdles to face. 1.) The OEM parts are so much better now than they where even 10 years ago it's sickening. Higher quality from the factory limits the aftermarkets abillity to cheaply develop and produce new parts that produce enough extra power to justify the expensive of development and the average guy's willingness to pay for it. If it costs $1 million to design, develop and bring to market cylinder heads that add just 20 or 25 hp and you have to sell them for $1600/pr to make a profit, how many people are gonna pay that? I sure wouldn't. the cost vs power gain is not big enough. 2.) Late model parts are not very marketable if the emissions end of htigns isn't taken into perspective and it's expensive and time consumming to get a CARB# for a part. Those Olds and AMC parts, for example, pre-date emissions testing in most every state so the wide open market still exists for them. The market is more narrow for Late Model go-fast parts. Makes them less profitable and froma business standpoint more risky with less return.

streetstang03 · Feb 7, 2006

droptopponynj said:
yup, 3-4 yrs its been coming out any day now

just look at how long it took for the P51 to come out. they kept saying any day now as well...

hognutz · Feb 7, 2006

most of these thing have been on the table for a long time. I don't know the dynamic behind it. $$$$, does not work as well as expect, production cost, etc but they seem like they will never get here.

I mean look at the HPS site. last update 11-18-05 and it was supposed to ben in final tooling and no update in 3months?

there dyno data sucks too. 272hp with cold air, flowmasters, and plenum I am calling BS on that.

trinity_gt · Feb 7, 2006

tjm73 said:
We're not talking about 3V heads. We're talking about 2V SOHC heads.

And I'm illustrating the point that a better flowing head will make power on these engines. The new heads don't necessarily have to go to a 3V format...if some enterprising outfit can cast a 2V head that flows close to a 3V head then good for them. If they make it a 3V format and give us a new manifold to go along with it (i.e. the "package" I spoke of) then that's what it takes.

And while I am sure there are improvements to be had. With the restrictions just 2 valves place on power production...

The problem isn't so much the number of valves as it is the vanishngly small broe size that limits their diameter and shrouds the things. As well, we've only got 281 cubic inches to work with. 2V LS1s make great power...

But like I said: a better flowing head (3V) is already out there that boosts power over a PI by 40HP when matched with a new intake. Ergo, the PI is not the be all and end all of power on this shortblock.

They still make those parts because, believe it or not, people hot rod things other than Mustangs.

I doubt there are as many 343 AMC cars around as there were V8 Mustangs built in 2004 alone. I never see them here...

Those manifolds and heads are reworks of existing Hi-Po parts. Parts development for late model cars has 2 very large hurdles to face. 1.) The OEM parts are so much better now than they where even 10 years ago it's sickening.

And Ford's demonstrated that a 3V head flows that much better than the PI 2V and the PI beats the NPI. There's always room for improvement. If the a new aftermarket head combo for the GT engine turns out to be a 3V with fixed valve timing and a matching intake manifold, then there's likely 40+HP right there. There's a market for that.

Late model parts are not very marketable if the emissions end of htigns isn't taken into perspective and it's expensive and time consumming to get a CARB# for a part.

The 5.0 crowd swims in aftermarket heads and manifolds despite being emissions controlled vehicles subject to CARB rules. Besides, what's stopping the old standby "For off-road use only..."?

Anyway, I guess we'll see what Edelbrock comes up with no matter what

KronicRacer · Feb 7, 2006

subscribing

mogs01gt · Feb 7, 2006

Dont buy anything from Professional Products. Its a China based company ripping off American designed parts.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=753589&highlight=professional+products

trailblazr81 · Feb 7, 2006

trinity_gt said:
I doubt there are as many 343 AMC cars around as there were V8 Mustangs built in 2004 alone. I never see them here...
The 5.0 crowd swims in aftermarket heads and manifolds despite being emissions controlled vehicles subject to CARB rules. Besides, what's stopping the old standby "For off-road use only..."?

Anyway, I guess we'll see what Edelbrock comes up with no matter what

I normally dont admit to this but I have a buddy who is building a 10.2:1 compression AMC 343 right now. He's buit a 304, 360 and 401. He's had a 71 Javelin, 78 Matador, and currently a 68 Rebel. I try not to be seen in public around him. He goes to AMC events and you'll be amazed at how many AMC folk are out there. Edelbrock just started building headers for 'em last year.

Also those 5.0 Mustangs were built for like 25 years. And there was alot of room for improvement. Todays technology along with computer controlled everything has made it harder to build higher performance parts at a price people will pay. I have a 85 GT with a 210 HP 5.0 and I also have a 2000 GT with a 260 HP 4.6 and I know someone who just got a 06 with a 300 HP 4.6L. No its nolt like a 200 HP NA 2.0L but we are now past 1HP per cubic inch. No it will never be as cheap as 5.0 go fast goodies but the parts will slowly come.

mity2 · Feb 7, 2006

71 Javelin,,,,

I think MustangRay is also building AMC Rambler(of all AMC...)

BaconBits · Feb 7, 2006

trailblazr81 said:
I really hope the Edelbrock intake isnt anything similar to this one. What good is 23 HP at 6300 RPM when my rev limiter is at 6100-6200?? Also how is this intake making 23 HP? Those are cam change numbers. Alot of work to swap out an intake on our motors, so whatever intake comes out it better make decent power and not cost $600.

You have to take RPM Outlet's numbers for the Mustang with about 64 billion grains of salt. According to their numbers my car should be making about 600hp. But it will be nice to have an aluminum intake that can be ported and have more resistance to a nitrous backfire than plastic. Down the road in addition to LT's, stage II cams, and a good port and polish I think my 4.6 would benefit from a better flowing lower intake.

In this month's MM&FF they did an intake swap on the project "red headed stepchild" and used a new prototype "VRI" intake that got them something like 40whp. Granted it was on a 98, and used the pre-PI intake, but those are some amazing numbers. I believe that 98 GT had PI heads and/or cams in it. They did not show it, and gave no information on it until the next issue. But my guess is that it is a Variable Runner Intake, much like the $2500 Ford Racing FR500 VRI for the 4-valve engines. That is an incredible intake for N/A engines just look at these numbers for an N/A 99 cobra
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252577
But for that kind of money you might as well spend a little more and get a supercharger.

trinity_gt · Feb 7, 2006

trailblazr81 said:
I normally dont admit to this but I have a buddy who is building a 10.2:1 compression AMC 343 right now. He's buit a 304, 360 and 401. He's had a 71 Javelin, 78 Matador, and currently a 68 Rebel. I try not to be seen in public around him. He goes to AMC events and you'll be amazed at how many AMC folk are out there. Edelbrock just started building headers for 'em last year.

I'm sure there are many but my point is that there must be far more late model mustang GT owners chomping at the bit than there are obscure weidos ( ) building 35 year old fringe musclecars. I'm not saying there shouldn't be stuff available for them but rather that, if they're able to tool up manifolds and heads for what must be comparatively "marginal" markets like 343 AMCs, the least these makers could do is make reasonably priced stuff for us too..

We're not driving Citroens or Chevettes. These are Mustangs...about the only surviving V8 musclecar and it's maddeningly being ignored in its later iterations by these companies.

Also those 5.0 Mustangs were built for like 25 years. And there was alot of room for improvement.

I wholly agree but let's face facts: 260HP from a 4.6L of displacement leaves alot to be desired too. Alot of manufacturers are creeping up on or have long since past that mark with V6s possessing a litre or more less displacement. Ford, to its credit, proved that "horsepower is in the heads" and manifold with the 3V version making 40 more HP than the 2V version. Getting air into the engine is the gist of what we're talking about. I don't buy that the PI head and manifold is the end of the 2V performance chain...that there's no room for improvement in the 2V architecture. If as much work was put into R&Ding a decent aftermarket setup as is done for 5.0L setups I think we'd see good results. But even if the 2V is just too limited by wee valves caused by wee bores, then give us a simplified 3V combo that includes cams, heads and a manifold that should give more than 40HP since Ford could get that much from their new combo.

Todays technology along with computer controlled everything has made it harder to build higher performance parts at a price people will pay. I have a 85 GT with a 210 HP 5.0 and I also have a 2000 GT with a 260 HP 4.6 and I know someone who just got a 06 with a 300 HP 4.6L. No its nolt like a 200 HP NA 2.0L but we are now past 1HP per cubic inch. No it will never be as cheap as 5.0 go fast goodies but the parts will slowly come.

The first modular showed up in what, 1992? That was 14 years ago now. How many aftermarket cylinder head castings are there available? "Slowly" indeed... To the market's credit, we've been seeing a trickle of intake manifolds lately but not from the industry "bigs", so far they seem to have largely failed to deliver big gains and they still cost a bundle.

tjm73 · Feb 9, 2006

I FOUND A PICTURE!!!!

The picture is the EFI version. That means it's not a street piece. Carb version assumadly has no EFI provisions.

This is an edited screen shot from the 2006 catalog I downloaded from the Edelbrock website www.edelbrock.com

btolenti · Feb 9, 2006

Looks like it needs one of edelbrock's competition 4 barrel throttle bodies.....along with their Pro-Tuner EFI system. I wonder if they are planning a stock replacement performance manifold.....in their performer or performer RPM series, instead of the Victor race series....

mogs01gt · Feb 9, 2006

tjm73 said:
I FOUND A PICTURE!!!!

The picture is the EFI version. That means it's not a street piece. Carb version assumadly has no EFI provisions.

This is an edited screen shot from the 2006 catalog I downloaded from the Edelbrock website www.edelbrock.com

at the bottom it stated there are fuel injector bosses. hmm might be promising but it looks more built for carbs.

btolenti · Feb 9, 2006

well they probably designed the carb intake first and then just did some slight modifying, with the addition of fuel injector bosses, and called it their EFI intake.

Hopefully this is just one of multiple products they will some out with.

mity2 · Feb 9, 2006

Hey Tim73, where did you source the picture??

trailblazr81 · Feb 9, 2006

Ya but to think of what else I would have to do to make my motor capable of spinning to 7500RPM.

mogs01gt · Feb 9, 2006

trailblazr81 said:
Ya but to think of what else I would have to do to make my motor capable of spinning to 7500RPM.

lmao you dont have to spin it that far, they are saying it can flow well up to there. Plus with cams, build engine and that intake, a 2v could rev to 7k or higher without a problem.

DropTopPony · Feb 9, 2006

tjm73 said:
I FOUND A PICTURE!!!!

The picture is the EFI version. That means it's not a street piece. Carb version assumadly has no EFI provisions.

This is an edited screen shot from the 2006 catalog I downloaded from the Edelbrock website www.edelbrock.com

I remember this now, It was mentioned in MMFF in one of the fall issues, hot new parts or SEMA coverage or something. Looks like its more of a street rod intake.

mity2 · Feb 9, 2006

i E-mailed Edelbrock asking what to expect from them. will see what they'll say

helty · Feb 9, 2006

Good find man! I wanna see dyno sheets. who's gonna be the guinnea pig?

Looks promising, I hope more aftermarket companies follow suit.

Edelbrock 4.6 SOHC Intakes - 2 of them

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