Engine Swap Questions

[85gt5.0]

im really taking this into consideration of swapping my carb'd 302, for a fuel injected 302 from a '87-93 Mustang GT...

im gonna be buying a 87-93 GT from a junkyard here in salina, and plan on taking the dual hump crossmember out, front fascia, 8.8" axle, and the 302 fuel injected motor...

i was wondering what all i need to do, in order to have the 302 fuel injected run properly, etc...

all advice/comments would be greatly appreciated

Gary

 

[matm347]

The CPU, harnesses and the fuel system. All of the sensors will be needed as well, You may want to get the exhaust while you're at it, the O2 sensors will need a place to stay.
If it were me, I would stick with the carb setup, they make more HP anyway.

 

[Modular2v]

i have an entire fuel injection setup in u are interested... pm me

 

[85gt5.0]

matm347: thanks

modular2v: u've been PM'd

 

[1990Coupe]

If you decide to do it, you need to decide on weather you are going speed density or mass air. cause if your going mass air, you can only get a harness out of an 89 i believe (california cars had them in 88).. honestly i think that wouldnt even work i think the plugs by the firewall on the driver side are totally different. if it were an 86 or 87 i think it would work. im not 100% on this tho if someone can help out!

 

[Dean85GT]

why the front fascia?

Dont even think about it! LOL

 

[MrKwik]

im really taking this into consideration of swapping my carb'd 302, for a fuel injected 302 from a '87-93 Mustang GT...

im gonna be buying a 87-93 GT from a junkyard here in salina, and plan on taking the dual hump crossmember out, front fascia, 8.8" axle, and the 302 fuel injected motor...

i was wondering what all i need to do, in order to have the 302 fuel injected run properly, etc...

all advice/comments would be greatly appreciated

Gary

You wont be needing the fascia for the EFI swap. Of course I am being a smart ass but it allways amazes me when someone wants to replace a four eye with an aero nose.

In case you would have any intrest....I have an 86GT that I am parting. 5.0 harness, computer etc.

 

[vristang]

I am glad to hear that you are willing to convert to efi. When looking at all characteristics of a motor (driveability, power, emissions) efi is much better than carb.

As hinted to above, you will need the in tank fuel pump, rails, and it would probably be easiest to pull the tank from the donor car too. Be sure to grab all the bolts (and other assorted hardware) you can, even if you aren't sure you will need them; many times yards won't even charge for them if you are buying some other large parts.

You have a lot of work ahead of you, but I am sure you will be very happy with the finished product.
jason

 

[95GTAODE]

Here's the important question:

WHY are you wanting to swap to FI?

 

[matm347]

I am glad to hear that you are willing to convert to efi. When looking at all characteristics of a motor (driveability, power, emissions) efi is much better than carb.

Sorry guy, a carb'd motor will make more power, 20~30HP more is not unheard of.

 

[95GTAODE]

I'm willing to bey he's having trouble with the factory 4180, and that's why he want's to switch.

 

[85gt5.0]

I'm willing to bey he's having trouble with the factory 4180, and that's why he want's to switch.

dumb question, what do u mean by factory 4180, and what does it cause to happen?

 

[95GTAODE]

4180C is the List# of the Factory Motorcraft/Holley Carb on '83-'85 HO Mustangs, and other 4V Ford engines of that era.

They are considered to be part of the Holley 4160 family, but often cause problems because they are out of tune, and have a few anti-tamper features to keep freaks like us from tweaking them easily adnd tossing the emissions junk.

Few seem to understand, that with a little research, they can be tweaked and tuned just like any other 4160 Holley, which is the standard performance carb the world over. They are actually very good Carbs, just misunderstood.

 

[billison]

I have a fuel inj setup i need to get rid of, that i'd like to get some carb'd stuff out off, pm me if your interested at all

 

[vristang]

Sorry guy, a carb'd motor will make more power, 20~30HP more is not unheard of.

Sorry guy? I said my name is jason

Power/fuel economy/emissions.
IF efi then pick 2 of the above.
IF carb you can pick 1 of the above.

The carb may make more power, OR if you tune it appropriately, it can have as good a driveability/economy. BUT, there is no way that a carb will be able to provide the same power with the same driveability, AND the same emissions ability as efi. It's just not gonna happen.

This is the reason ALL of the major auto manufacturers (and even most of the small ones) gave carbs up years ago. Decades now?

If all you want is peak hp, then a carb can get the job done. But if you a have any intention of driving your car on the street, you will see more "streetability" from efi than a carb at a given power level.

Throw emissions into this discussion and the conversation is over. Carbs cannot handle todays standards.

I am not saying that there is more power with one or the other, just that efi lets you have your cake and eat it too, while carbs make you choose what your motor will be good at.

Oh, and by the way that 20-30hp gain is going to be in the top end with a lack of power in the low range. Not very well suited for street cars, dont' you agree guy.
Hope you can take a joke

jason

 

[matm347]

Sorry guy? I said my name is jason

Power/fuel economy/emissions.
IF efi then pick 2 of the above.
IF carb you can pick 1 of the above.

The carb may make more power, OR if you tune it appropriately, it can have as good a driveability/economy. BUT, there is no way that a carb will be able to provide the same power with the same driveability, AND the same emissions ability as efi. It's just not gonna happen.

This is the reason ALL of the major auto manufacturers (and even most of the small ones) gave carbs up years ago. Decades now?

If all you want is peak hp, then a carb can get the job done. But if you a have any intention of driving your car on the street, you will see more "streetability" from efi than a carb at a given power level.

Throw emissions into this discussion and the conversation is over. Carbs cannot handle todays standards.

I am not saying that there is more power with one or the other, just that efi lets you have your cake and eat it too, while carbs make you choose what your motor will be good at.

Oh, and by the way that 20-30hp gain is going to be in the top end with a lack of power in the low range. Not very well suited for street cars, dont' you agree guy.
Hope you can take a joke

jason

crapola

You've not seen a properly tuned carb have you? They are just as streetable as EFI, it simply has to be tuned for the atmospheric conditions which can and do change quite often. The power gain is not just peak, it's over the usable powerband. A properly tuned motor will produce the same emissions, regardless of how the air and fuel got there.

I was simply correcting the falsity of your statement that EFI makes more power than carb, which is simply not true.

Trust me, I know just about all the differences and advantages between the two. So please don't attempt to school me on any more of them.

 

[vristang]

crapola

You've not seen a properly tuned carb have you? They are just as streetable as EFI, it simply has to be tuned for the atmospheric conditions which can and do change quite often. The power gain is not just peak, it's over the usable powerband. A properly tuned motor will produce the same emissions, regardless of how the air and fuel got there.

I was simply correcting the falsity of your statement that EFI makes more power than carb, which is simply not true.

Trust me, I know just about all the differences and advantages between the two. So please don't attempt to school me on any more of them.

Not trying to "school" you, just thow out some ideas for discussion.

Having to be re-tuned is part of streetability. If I had to retune when driving over a mountain pass, I would be pissed. Here in the NW I can hit a pass quite often, sometimes once a week or more. Efi re-tunes itself! I don't have to worry as much about pinging. This is just one example.

Once again I never said that efi makes more power than a carb.

As far as where the power is, you are right in that it can be through the entire range, but I will still argue that it will be more effective/efficient to get the same result with efi, on a hp/unit fuel consumption basis. Fuel metering with efi is simply more accurate.

My point is (still) that efi will let you have more than one thing that the motor is great at. Again, pick 2 of the 3.

As an aside - When someone asks me to trust them, I will immediately question their expertise.

jason

 

[matm347]

I am glad to hear that you are willing to convert to efi. When looking at all characteristics of a motor (driveability, power, emissions) efi is much better than carb.
jason

Once again I never said that efi makes more power than a carb.

That looks to me like you said it's much better than a carb at all 3, but I'm not here to debate EFI vs Carb nor your contradictions. Simply correcting the inaccuracies as I see them.

 

[vristang]

That looks to me like you said it's much better than a carb at all 3, but I'm not here to debate EFI vs Carb nor your contradictions. Simply correcting the inaccuracies as I see them.

In the first post I did not mean that all three of those would be better with efi, just that the compromise between the 3 would be better with efi than carb.

I eluded to the same thing with the "pick any 2 of the 3 comment."

 

[85gt5.0]

which is better... speed density or mass air?

EDIT: what yrs had which?