Finally Ready to turn the engine on

[m0l0]

Hi there all :SNSign: members..

Well finally after a looong engine assembly and everything rechecked like 20 times before doing it i am ready to crank this baby on.

However i have a lot of "fear" to screw things up, i have hooked up the tweecer ( what a nice nice hardware ) and reading eec and trying the datalog before the engine turn, its working flawlesly but i have to make a re-check before i turn the key on:

Well i think i have most of my mods on the signature however i will state them here again (at least the ones that concern the tuning) :

Ford Racing 30 lbs inj.
STOCK MAF ( i didnt touch the stock maf transfer )
Cobra upper and lower intake ported to match heads
AFR 165
BBK EQ. Length ( What a PITA to install and tight them )
EGR disconnected ( even the bbk had on them the output the stock tube dosn´t fit the intake and i dont have time to re-make the little bugger)
Removed Air pump
Aeromotive FPR ( 39 lbs )
Timming 13 ( i will have to rent a light or something to back out to 10btc)
180 t-stat
75 mm Throttle BD.

Well the installation of the tweecer is easy , but i havent figured out how to get the eec on its place ( i cant reach the screw holding the plastic retainer), so i have the eec laid down on the floor of the passenger side ( i will fix this soon as this baby starts to roar )

Well to the point :
according to the manual here i had maded some changes

The changes i had made to the tweecer are the following :

Scalars :

EGR System Type : 2 ( Disabled )
Idle in gear : 800 ( i will low this if the cam allows it )
Idle in neut. : 800 ( see last )
ISC Max. Drive RPM : 848
ISC Max Clos. Thr. idle : 900 ( as stated on here 100 rpms above idl in gear )
fan_high_speed_ECT1_on = 196
fan_high_speed_ECT2_on = 200
fan_high_speed_ECT_off = 190
fan_low_speed_ECT_off = 182
fan_low_speed_ECT_on = 188

fuel_injector_breakpoint : 1.98E-05 = .0000197589 ( this was as the tweecer manual said on the 30 lbs inj. )

Fuel_injector_min_pulse_width = 3.8147E-6 = 0.0000038147 ( same as breakpoint based on tweecer manual.)

injector slope high = 30.4994 ( tweecer man. )
injector slope low = 38.499
Thermactor Presen = 0 ( disconected )

Functions :

Injector Offset vs. Battery Volt. ( this was pulled from E.A. <- best tool ever)

volt : | 0 | 5.5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |
Adder: | 7 | 7 |4.6563| 3.0313 | 2.0313 | 1.5313 |


volt : | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15.938 |
ader: | 13.125 | .9375 | .875 | .6875 | .625 | .625 |


This are all the changes i made , to my thinking this is mostly the more relevant to start at normal and gentle idle ( hope so )

However i have questions on more things :

The manifold_volume_(liters) is set to "4" stock should i rise this to 5.5 as i have seen on some cobras??
The Trottle body Air Flow would be needed to be changed b/c 75mm ?

I have seen on the calcon the tps closed @ 1.1 v, i cant adjust it mecanicaly unless i drill it or something like that however the calcon reads fine the Closed,Part,WOT readings. should i let this as it is?

Lastly and no more less important , i cant afford the e.a. as of now ( i really promise i will buy it ) i just would like to know if any one can help me with the Injector Timing using the EA with the cam specs, ( 86GT "eectuning.org" i promise to bought your EA as soon as i have money )

Really Thanks to all for reading this Loooooooooooong post and any guidance will be gold to me as of now.

I hope this info ( if works well ) will help anyone there with the same combo or atleast whatever u can use from it i promise to post the CCF when i verify it works well.

 

[m0l0]

anyone????

at least a little light to know if the parameters on the fuel_injector_min_pulse_width or the fuel_injector_breakpoint is fine to use with the 30 lbs???

 

[blksn955.o]

looks like you have been searching and found things you need.

You seem to be on the correct path...logging and looking at your K's will be a good factor to see how far off you are on the inj.

The manifold thing IIRC its been awhile but is used more so if there is a lean spike...going one way makes it worse (or leaner if you are fat) and the other fattens' it up.

Make sure you set your checksum to 0.

 

[final5-0]

I looked and did not see if you be a GT or Cobra kinda guy
or
I did not see you mention the type of pcm you are working with
but
If you are talking something other than a Cobra pcm

Since you got H/C/I and 30's

I'd move to the j4j1 right now and use it as a foundation to build your tune upon.

It works so much better for combos such as yours with much less tuning needed for very good drivability as compared to the other cal files such as t4m0.

Been there ... Done that ... Got the T-Shirt

My sig combo just ran awful with the t4m0

First upload of the j4j1 and about 85% of my drivability issues were magically
gone on the first fire up and test drive around the block

Grady

 

[m0l0]

I looked and did not see if you be a GT or Cobra kinda guy
or
I did not see you mention the type of pcm you are working with
but
If you are talking something other than a Cobra pcm

Since you got H/C/I and 30's

I'd move to the j4j1 right now and use it as a foundation to build your tune upon.

It works so much better for combos such as yours with much less tuning needed for very good drivability as compared to the other cal files such as t4m0.

Been there ... Done that ... Got the T-Shirt

My sig combo just ran awful with the t4m0

First upload of the j4j1 and about 85% of my drivability issues were magically
gone on the first fire up and test drive around the block

Grady

Thanks Grady ,, however i tried cobra cal. and it didnt work , the car wont start , if i start it with the t4m0 and then switch to the cobra cal , i will completely stop , i think is extremely rich because it started to smoke a lot with the cobra cal , on the cobra cal i configured :

Injector Size breakpoint & slope
Battery offset
Moved the gobal timing to +1 <- as my t4m0
Injector timming equal to t4m0

thats all , and with those parameters the car will completely die and become extremely rich because the smoke ( the smoke was from too much fuel )

 

[Methodical]

Thanks Grady ,, however i tried cobra cal. and it didnt work , the car wont start , if i start it with the t4m0 and then switch to the cobra cal , i will completely stop , i think is extremely rich because it started to smoke a lot with the cobra cal , on the cobra cal i configured :

Injector Size breakpoint & slope
Battery offset
Moved the gobal timing to +1 <- as my t4m0
Injector timming equal to t4m0

thats all , and with those parameters the car will completely die and become extremely rich because the smoke ( the smoke was from too much fuel )

I think you'd want to keep the Cobras calibrations as is, initially, except for the slopes for your 30s and not try to match it with the T4mO, which would seem counterintuitive. A good starting point for the 30s would be 30x1.2 (or 36) for the low slope and 30 for the high slope. I have 24's but this is what I've seen during my research.

The breakpoints will come with datalogs and EA. The Cobras breakpoints are the same 24.8 but since your slopes will be different your breakpoint will most likely be different. You will either work the slopes or the breakpoint but not both at the same time or you will chasing your tail. I personally worked the slopes and used the stock BP.

Leave the global timing at 0. With a +1 and distributor at 13*,you now moved the entire spark table up 4 degrees. Look at the spark base table and add 4 to all rows and you will see what I mean. Check Grady's site to see how to turn off 3 of the 4 spark tables so that you will only have to work with one spark table (don't remember all the tables' names). Basically, you just input 55 in all tables you don't want to deal with, except the Base Spark table, then you just work with the base spark table to adjust your timing.

I see you are using the stock MAF but have 30s - this maybe the cause of the rich condition. Try starting with the ProM 30 MAF and start from there. If it's rich you can lean the 1st 5 positions, which is the idle area, using the global function of the MAF, until it starts and idle enough to get you going with the TwEECing.

 

[final5-0]

I feel for ya .............

I do remember my efforts of trying to get my current sig combo to work with the t4m0 file

It did the following and more:
stalled
bucked
would not idle below 1500 rpm
burned your eyes so bad you could not stay in the garage

It was just I can about it now

Here is a thought or two

A word about the offsets

Lower values will usually mean the difference between the slopes will be less.

Look at the stock t4m0 & j4j1 as an example and you'll see it clearly.

I've gotten good CL tunes with greater slope differences and higher offsets and I've gotten good CL tunes the other way around.

How close your maf curve is will certainly have a bearing here
and
For most other things as well when talking CL tune

You got the stocker maf so you should not have to do much to the CL part of the curve except a minor tweec or two.

I can say by my findings of using 30's and the stock maf ......
you're gonna have to work on the OL part of the curve a good bit
but
that should come later when you got a wb and are more comfortable working with the fuel tables.

I'd do like Mr. M talked about with offsets for 30's and 30/36 slopes.

btw ... Don't forget to put the spark and fuel pressure values back to stock as you have gone to a method with more options and using those mechanical methods will be counter productive to what you are now trying to achieve.

You may have some idle issues and you can get some relief with
1 maf points at idle - maybe one above/below idle
2 tb airflow scalar
3 idle airflow neutral function
4 make sure your tb blade is not too far off the stop screw
5 depending on cam, you may need a higher idle, start with 850 to 900 rpm and when things get stable, you might be able to back it down a bit

I went back in the thread and looked at the stuff you said

TPS VOLTAGE

Again, make sure the tb is not too far open and your tps voltage may dip below 1.00. I would try to get yours below 1.00 however.

INJ TIMING

Leave that for later as it is kinda like icing on the cake

you wanna get it optimized
but
at this point in time

you wanna get a basic stable tune established
and
that is your #1 objective if you ask me

MANIFOLD SCALAR

I used this scalar to help a nasty lean spike I saw when going from a cruise throttle position to wot. At this point in your tuning efforts, I'd not hose with it. Wait for the wb to tell you whats what.

EEC ANALYZER

It is so helpful so just get it when your funds allow but put it on the top of your list.

J4J1 DID NOT WORK

I gotta think you overlooked something simple

I gotta go along with Methodical's advice about just changing ONLY the necessary things needed to get started.

You might use same slopes (30/30) and offsets for 30's and see how things work but don't spend a lot of time to just try it out.

Look at K's to see if it is loading up on fuel
which
Would be my gut feeling might be happening

Drivability issues can be very effectively dealt with by watching what the adapitve is doing and IMHO, a wb is not needed with these kinds of issues.

If that kind of thing is going on ... you could try some things like .....
up the low slope by 3 full points each time
lean back the idle part of the maf curve
look at examples 2 and 3 from above

btw ... when working on CL issues, don't forget to reset the pcm to make the adaptive start all over again.

Basically you watch to see if it is adding or pulling fuel
and
as you get closer and closer .............
you'll see it work less and less

If you are trying to go from switch doodad position of a t4mo to a j4j1 switch positon and neither file is optimized ... that is asking a lot.

Honestly ... I've never used that little switch all that much

If you wanna build on the j4j1 platform, just load it on a position and keep at it on the same position as moving around will cause the adapitve to go nuts as you talked about doing above IMHO.

I would encourage you to try the j4j1 again with a focus on keeping it as simple as possible.

I beat on my t4m0 for about two to three weeks and did not make much drivability progress with the sig tune (stock maf at that time).

The bulk of my issues were gone with one simple upload

What the hay ... a few things for you to try

Grady

 

[blksn955.o]

I have seen people post that the t4m0 and j4j1 tune has the same breakpoint...mine did not, and not just a E5 v. E6 thing the numbers were phys. different. FWIW I had an issue with my tune on the j4j1 (nothing as bad as yours) and found making sure the split slope style of the t4m0 matched the tm40 breakpoint helped alot. Might want to try that as the bigger 30's may be making that alittle worse

Just making sure you did set the checksum to 0 on the j4j1 right?

 

[m0l0]

Really thanks for all the info!!!!

Well im kinda guilty of not posting more info on my tune:

The T4M0 as is with the changes i posted before is idling perfect not a single problem at all actually is so good that the Karmfs are changing only between all the rpm band between 1.030 and 0.998 at most , only at idle @800 rpms the K´s are showing 1.200, so i know i need to raise my maf curve only at the current KG/hr flow at 23-24 kg/r wich is idle flow right now, i tried to set the tps at .98v but the car refuses to idle , so i had to help a little the IAC and set the screw and tps to 1.1v , it idles exactly where i want to 800 rpms. so i think is not bad at all the current tune as is. the only gremlin i have is after a little warm if you stop the engine and turn it again, the car will stall , but if i push the skinny pedal for like 10 secs and set at 1500 rpms give or take , the car will idle with no problem at all after that it will idle stable @ 800.

Now , i tried the cobra cal today since yesterday i was making a whole comparition between the cobra cal an the t4m0 and i liked the cobra since is nice timing and runing rich at wot, how ever i didnt have time to just write it and modify the basic , i wanted a whole reconfig, i will try this on the weekend since work dosnt allow me to work much on the car. so just try the cobra setting inj. size break point and slope, no more , i tried the best doing all at once , but i will calm down and try step by step changes.

Ohh i almost forgot my timing is exactly at 10 btc on the dizzy , but on the global spark adder i have only 1 degree , and the car feels so nice at cruising and at WOT that i am really amazed that the T4M0 is working so well , no pingin no nothing.

I will work on this on the Saturday, since is the only day i will have time to work on this.

Sorry Adding more info :

Well i have in my mind using the entire cobra timing and fuel tables on the T4M0

I had a little doubts on the cobra cal at the first because i saw that also the maf transfer is diferent on the cobra than the t4m0, ohh well i wil try this on sat.


I havnt seen any lean spike using 5.5 liters on manifold size, darn i need a WB to be sure, also i noted that increasing the TB airflow increased a LOT my trottle response, but i dont know for sure what the correct value will be for a 75 mm ( the cobra intake that couples with the TB is also ported to 75 mm

 

[final5-0]

Well i have in my mind using the entire cobra timing and fuel tables on the T4M0

You most likely will loose a bit of power as the j4j1 has softer default tables.

I havnt seen any lean spike using 5.5 liters on manifold size

Without a WB I don't see how you would know

Looks like you are startin to have some fun

Grady

 

[Stanger007]

I think all cars go lean on decel - my researching showed that because there is no load on the engine there was no risk of detonation. Have you found the same?

I've noticed at the track that my car will pop to around 17:1 immediately after lifting the pedal from a WOT run.

Noticed the same on a couple friend's w/b-equipped import cars as well.

Wes

 

[m0l0]

Looks like you are startin to have some fun

Grady

Yes actually is becoming a little like an addiction i cant wait to start to improve everything with any little change!

I really think that the tweecer is a excellent piece of hardware, with a nice software in all aspects , the only and only downside i consider is that it lacks a digital/analog input to use with a boost sensor or a nitrous switch and another afr table and spark table that would kick in that instant when that input detects something previously stablished parameters! that would make the tweecer the best tuner

 

[final5-0]

Seems to me the best way to go about making sure things are good when the boost kicks in is to use load

High load has to mean the boost is a comin on

Grady