Firewall Adjuster.....Need some Input on a Issue *Please Come In*

SRT Handz

I tripped & fell down and cut myself & got blood
Oct 10, 2004
941
23
19
La Mirada, CA
Products Being used: Fiore Firewall Adjuster, Fiore Quadrant, LDC Clucth Free-Play Mod, OEM Ford Cable

Question:So i recently installed my Fiore Quadant and firewall adjuster on my mustang. In completed the install correctly and it works great.... but i have on issue i need some input on.

I dont have the cable catching REALLY high, maybe a little less than stock.... but my issue is the firewall adjuster. Even though i dont have the clutch engaging really high (just lower than stock) the Firewall adjuster is adjusted out pretty far. IDK how much further it can do without falling out. I have a brand new Centerforce DF clutch in the car so i know the clutch is not worn.

so i am wondering if the Firewall adjuster so be out this much. Since odd to me for it be out this much. I am running the Stock cable from 1998 with 125K miles on it.....

Since the Adjuster is out this far does this mean my cable is worn out and i need a new one?

Please post pics of your firewall adjuster for comparison

FirewallAdjuster1.JPG


FirewallAdjuster2.JPG
 
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Remember, as the clutch wears, you are going to screw that thing in to make the cable longer so that the clutch fork can back out further to account for the wear...
 
Remember, as the clutch wears, you are going to screw that thing in to make the cable longer so that the clutch fork can back out further to account for the wear...

MY understanding was the opposite of what you are saying.....i thought that as the clutch wore the cable needed to get tighter to compensate for wear so you need so turn the adjuster out....:shrug:
 
MY understanding was the opposite of what you are saying.....i thought that as the clutch wore the cable needed to get tighter to compensate for wear so you need so turn the adjuster out....:shrug:


exactly...you adjust OUT as the clutch wears to keep the cable tight (well tight-ish)

anyway that is out a lot farther than my MM set-up...are there multiple hooks on the quadrant? that just doesn't look right
 
Are you still using the stock cable? If so, I recommend you get one the MM universal Ford clutch cables. Part #: MMCL-11. I have their quadrant and firewall adjuster w/this cable and my firewall adjuster is still pretty close to the firewall. Clutch engagement is basically the same as stock with it setup this way.
 
MY understanding was the opposite of what you are saying.....i thought that as the clutch wore the cable needed to get tighter to compensate for wear so you need so turn the adjuster out....:shrug:


Nope. Look at the clutch fork. As the clutch wears, the fork moves toward the rear of the car, because the pressure plate is having to move closer to the flywheel to compensate for the thinner clutch disk. We use the cable that adjusts at the fork, and when the clutch is about gone, the adjuster is all the way out to the end... May sound backward, but it isn't. The cable needs to get longer as the clutch wears down because as the pressure plate moves toward the flywheel, the release fingers move rearward toward the transmission...
 
exactly...you adjust OUT as the clutch wears to keep the cable tight (well tight-ish)

anyway that is out a lot farther than my MM set-up...are there multiple hooks on the quadrant? that just doesn't look right

If you adjust it out, your clutch is going to slip. Just crawl under the car that has a new clutch and look how far forward the clutch fork sits. Then get under one that has an old clutch and notice how far back the release fork has moved. You are forgetting that the release fingers are levers inside the clutch, and that as the clutch wears and the pressure plate moves toward the flywheel to compensate, the release levers pivot and have to move in the opposite direction.

Have you ever actually adjusted yours? I suspect not or you would have seen this.
 
you suspect wrong Mr. Hyatt

I've had it on my car for 4 or 4 years now and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that you extend the knob OUT to tighten the cable...and to install the cable the knob must be turned most of the way in to loosen the cable enough to install it...I suspect you would have know that if you had actually installed a clutch adjuster yourself ;)


but what do I know...I've only been working on Mustangs for 35 years or so... :rolleyes:


and if my word isn't good enough for you, maybe you should take a look at Maximum Motors' instructions:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/install/pdf/drivetrain_clutch/MMCL-3r2.pdf
 
you suspect wrong Mr. Hyatt

I've had it on my car for 4 or 4 years now and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that you extend the knob OUT to tighten the cable...and to install the cable the knob must be turned most of the way in to loosen the cable enough to install it...I suspect you would have know that if you had actually installed a clutch adjuster yourself ;)


but what do I know...I've only been working on Mustangs for 35 years or so... :rolleyes:


and if my word isn't good enough for you, maybe you should take a look at Maximum Motors' instructions:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/install/pdf/drivetrain_clutch/MMCL-3r2.pdf

Me too. And as the clutch wears the cable has to be lengthened or the clutch will begin to slip. True on any car I have worked on with a manual and a non-hydraulic clutch. Look at the physics. The cable wraps around the quadrant, goes thru the housing, which is held fixed at the bellhousing. The cable goes thru the clutch fork, and when you press the pedal, you rotate the quadrant, which pulls/shortens the cable, which pulls the clutch fork forward, which presses the throwout bearing against the clutch fingers which releases the clutch. As the clutch material wears, the pressure plate springs pull it closer to the flywheel since the clutch disk is getting thinner. As this happens, the clutch release fingers move i the opposite direction because of how they pivot. And the clutch fork _must_ move away from the flywheel to avoid continuous pressure on the release fingers which would cause the clutch to slip.

we are running a 2000 at the strip, and use the type of cable where the adjuster is on the end where it engages the fork. A new clutch has the two nuts used to engage the clutch fork screwed almost all the way onto the threaded end of the cable. As the clutch wears, we have to back those nuts out, lengthening the cable. When the clutch is at the end of its service life, the two jam nuts are all the way out to the end of the threaded end, making the cable as long as possible.

Now if you have some mechanism where screwing the adjuster out makes the cable longer, that's fine. But as the clutch wears, the cable absolutely must get longer, there is no other way. And once you crawl under there and look at the clutch fork position on a new vs old clutch, you will understand this easily...

BTW go to step 23 and read carefully in the PDF you referenced...
 
Exactly, mransr!!! Hyatt must have not done his own install lol

I can guarantee you that if you _shorten_ the cable as the clutch wears, you are doing it backward. Once you crawl under the car and look at the clutch fork and how it moves, you will figure it out.

Do it however you want of course. Hopefully the newbies will learn to do it the right way, BTW I'd bet I have installed more clutches than you have. We are running ours at the strip weekly and clutch replacements are a yearly thing on the outside, shorter than that usually. And we do 'em in the driveway here, not letting someone else do it for us.
 
Well I usually do not contribute to tech here any more but I like Handz and Bob needs some support.

As the clutch wears you screw the FW adjuster IN the firewall until it is screwed almost all the way in and then your clutch is completely worn out.

Also, Handz you need to rmove the free pay take up spring if you are ever going to get it adjusted properly. Install the spring after or even better pitch it in the trash.

Good luck, come on over to SVTP sometime Handz...
 
One of my golden rules has always been to understand how something works before fiddling with it. The firewall adjuster idea is a good one, but we had an older adjustable cable new in the bag laying around when we decided to get rid of that lousy self-adjuster mechanism. I adjust this thing maybe once a month or so, and am fixing to _lengthen_ the cable again as the strip launches with slicks causes wear. I adjust ours to where there is about 1/2" to 1" of slop at the top, to guarantee that the pressure plate is applying max force to engage. As it wears, that slop disappears as the fork moves due to wear, and when the slop is almost gone, back under the car to back out the adjuster to lengthen the cable until we get that warm and fuzzy-feeling slop back.

What these guys are adjusting I have no idea, but it isn't a cable-driven clutch release mechanism, or if it is they are slipping badly and don't know it, Fortunately the mechanisms of the fork movement are fairly constant, and most adjustable cables and/or quadrants are designed so that you can't start off too short, which would wear the clutch out quickly. But as they wear, it is quite easy to have them slowly start applying pressure to the release fingers to cause slippage.
 
BobHyatt have you ever actually worked on anything or is this all theory on your part?

I can unequvically garentee that if I walk down to my garage and turn the adjuster in toward the firewall the clutch cable will become LOOSER, and as the clutch wears I have to adjust the cable out, toward the front of the car to keep the cable snug as the clutch wears...I'm sorry if that doesn't match your theory, but that is fact...again read the instructions provided by Maximum Motorsports
 
BobHyatt have you ever actually worked on anything or is this all theory on your part?

I can unequvically garentee that if I walk down to my garage and turn the adjuster in toward the firewall the clutch cable will become LOOSER, and as the clutch wears I have to adjust the cable out, toward the front of the car to keep the cable snug as the clutch wears...I'm sorry if that doesn't match your theory, but that is fact...again read the instructions provided by Maximum Motorsports

Then you are wrong. yes the cable becomes looser. But if you disconnect the cable so it is completely loose, you are going to tell me the clutch wears? you can't even get it into gear because it is so tightly clamped.

As I said, yes, I have installed many clutches. three in this current 2000 GT that we have been racing for about 18 months. As the clutch wears, the cable gets tighter and tighter, until the clutch slips because the cable is preventing the pressure plate from clamping fully. you _loosen_ the cable to relax the pressure on the pressure plate and it will grip once again.

Don't know what alternate universe you live in, but that is definitely how the mustang clutch works. Ask any good mechanic. Or go look for yourself. But if you loosen the cable the clutch will _not_ slip. the cable doesn't engage the clutch, is disengages. And if it is too short, the clutch will be partially disengaged all the time.

why make insulting remarks that are so easy to prove wrong by just looking? Jeez. So yes, I have done this many times. Apparently either (a) you have not or (b) you did it right and don't understand enough about how it works to realize what you did. but just go out and "loosen that cable all the way" and then tell me about how badly the clutch slips and is wearing. :) then you will see the _true_ story. Or go pick up any good book and look at the exploded diagram on how the pressure plate works. there are dozens of ways to discover what is going on and avoiding posting utter nonsense.

BTW if someone else would like to run a quick check, do the following, assuming you still have the normal self-adjusting clutch quadrant in.

put the car on ramps and remove the clutch fork cover. Very carefully measure from the front edge of the clutch fork where the cable attaches, to the edge of the bellhousing opening to measure exactly how far the release fork is from that bellhousing point. Note you will be measuring exactly along the path the cable follows so it is easy. then go in and lift the clutch pedal so that it pops. Now go back underneath the car and measure the same location again, and report here what you found. (hint: the distance will _increase_ because that pop disengages the pawl on the quadrant adjuster letting the cable snap out as far as the pressure plate can pull it, without introducing much slop because the clutch pedal also has a spring that keeps it at the top of the travel. Now if the distance is, as I claim, _longer_, then how is making the cable shorter going to accomplish that? It isn't. And _anyone_ can verify this. It is trivial to do and will take 5 minutes.