Frustrating cooling / Engine issues

[mustangman1974]

Alright, I have tried everything I could think of and many suggestions found here.

Here goes. Awhile back I purchsed a fluidyne drop in radiator for my 65. Needless to say it was not drop in. I fabbed a shround and found a fan to clear everything. Its a permacool HP, the blades are actually larger then the stock blades.

Every goes in the final time w.o a hitch (besides so core nicks). I fill it up an burb it. Well its 105 out here and I was kind of glad so I could see if it woudl actually keep it cool. Well I will be damed it don't. At an idle it is actually hotted then the 3 core copper, and on the freeway its 190 when the copper is usually 180. So now I am thinking my 420 investment is bunk.

Here is waht I checked.
1. timing 8 degrees
2. idle 600 in or out of gear.
3. vaccum at idle 17-18
4. new thermostat
5. new radiator cap 13 lbs.
6. new air cleaner
7. synthetic oil 10w 30 1000 mile to next change
8. adjusted idle mixture to highest vaccum then adjusted idle.


I am totally lost.

 

[mustangdave]

So what's the problem? 190 is cool for an engine. Anything below 180 actually wears an engine out because the tolerances aren't optinal for sealing. Nothing wrong with 210 to 230 actually. If your copper idled at 180 why in the world did you change it?

 

[bnickel]

So what's the problem? 190 is cool for an engine. Anything below 180 actually wears an engine out because the tolerances aren't optinal for sealing. Nothing wrong with 210 to 230 actually. If your copper idled at 180 why in the world did you change it?

agreed. although i would suggest bumping your timing up to about 10-12 BTDC and about 32-36 total.

 

[Steve69]

I had my stang out this weekend and I went thru the drive thru and my
temp was up to 215 and climbing. I pulled over and shut down. The
when I tried to restart it started hard. I thought boiling point was at
212 degrees? Should I be worried about this or add a electric fan?

Thanks

 

[5.0ina66]

I thought boiling point was at
212 degrees? Should I be worried about this or add a electric fan?

Thanks

It's mixed with antifreeze and under 13lbs of pressure; I'd expect the boiling point to be north of 245ºF. 215 is a little warm and hot cars start harder if the starting system isnt in the best shape.

 

[LMan]

Increased pressure raises the boiling point of all liquids, including your coolant. If coolant boiled at 212, no one could drive their cars south of Alaska or something

190 on the frreeway when ambient is 105? And you complain?

..but I agree with you that a 420.00 alum radiator was a waste of money in your situation. Lots of other radiators do just as well for 1/3 the cost, including other alum ones.

But hey, you have that neat "Fluidyne" written in black on the front, must be worth something

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Those early Mustangs only stand to benefit from a better radiator, but I have no idea why it would run hotter with so much more cooling capacity. When I had my '65 notch, it had a 10,000mi mild 289 that I couldn't keep cool even in 90* weather. I finally tried one of those high-efficiency 3-row brass radiators from NPD and a 17" flex fan(I don't remember if it had a shroud). Then even in 100+ weather I could sometimes see the t-stat(180) cycling on the gage. My '68 has a 3-row Modine, stock fan, no shroud, a lot more engine, and it's the same way.

The only thing I can figure is that the electric fan isn't pulling enough air through the radiator, but as long as it stays at 190 or lower I wouldn't worry.

 

[StephenMarsh]

Those early Mustangs only stand to benefit from a better radiator, but I have no idea why it would run hotter with so much more cooling capacity. When I had my '65 notch, it had a 10,000mi mild 289 that I couldn't keep cool even in 90* weather. I finally tried one of those high-efficiency 3-row brass radiators from NPD and a 17" flex fan(I don't remember if it had a shroud). Then even in 100+ weather I could sometimes see the t-stat(180) cycling on the gage. My '68 has a 3-row Modine, stock fan, no shroud, a lot more engine, and it's the same way.

The only thing I can figure is that the electric fan isn't pulling enough air through the radiator, but as long as it stays at 190 or lower I wouldn't worry.

I was concerned about my 67 and my mechanic said that the 289's are designed to operate essentially at a cooler level, when ambient temperatures are lower and at a higher level when outside temps are higher - I don't know how it does that, maybe it's just whether the thermo has opened up or not. Perhaps what he's describing to me (a layman) is more of an "artistic"explanation than what's really going on but......Since he mentioned it I keep an eye on it and it operates in just such a fashion - when it's cooler, it runs about 180-190 or so (with a 185 thermo) and when it's hotter out or I'm sitting in traffic, it cranks up there a bit - but then it sits about 1/2 way up the gauge - never gets any hotter, ever. I've got a new generic (Mustang's Plus) 20" 3-row with a clutch-less 6 blade flex-a-lite "extra cooling" fan and a stock 8146 shroud.

I've often wondered considering the position of the temp sending unit at the top of the engine if the build-up of heated air trapped up under the hood attributes to some of the temp rise I see while sitting in rush hour (read: parking lot for an hour) Los Angeles traffic

Side question - I ran into a guy at a bar out here one weekend afternoon that said he worked for 1-800-radiator (or some kind of number like that) that delivers direct to your door new radiators. I asked him about aluminum radiators vs. standard and he said most radiators these day are aluminum anyway, including most of what sold as discount, stock replacements for the do-it-yourselfer. Any truth to this? I must admit - I never bothered to check to see what my radiator is made out of.

 

[mustangman1974]

I most have forgot to include at an idle the temp is over 210. Yesterday it got to 230 because of an accident, and now my magnitec pickup took a sh#$. I am hoping the pickup was messed up and effected the timing at idle. Thats where the coolign issue is. I had the same problem before I installed the new radiator. I was kind of hoping the LARGER rad would help. only seems to hurt unless that damn module was going out earlier.

 

[rbohm]

here is the problem that many people have with aluminum radiatiors. they buy them without making sure that they are STREET radiators. often times aluminum rads are built for the race track, and thus have fewer cooling fins per inch than a street rad needs to keep the engine cool at low speeds. you need a rad with at least 16 fins per inch. check yours out, it might be 14 fins or less per inch.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

I am hoping the pickup was messed up and effected the timing at idle. Thats where the coolign issue is. I had the same problem before I installed the new radiator. I was kind of hoping the LARGER rad would help.

Did you have the electric fan before the radiator swap? Even the best Perma Cool HP only puts out ~2900cfm. The fans that everyone over in 5.0 tech swear by are from Lincoln Mark VIIIs, 94-5 Mustangs, and the Taurus. I think the Lincoln fan is ~5200cfm, but it draws over 40 amps continuous.

 

[SoCalCruising]

Hotrod Air sells a direct fit electric fan with integral shroud. It pulls a lot of air. I had to slightly trim shroud edges, but fit wasn't too bad. Runs on thermostat and keeps my motor at running temp ok.

Oh, one bad thing about this fan is you have to fab up your own mounting hardware.

 

[rbohm]

Did you have the electric fan before the radiator swap? Even the best Perma Cool HP only puts out ~2900cfm. The fans that everyone over in 5.0 tech swear by are from Lincoln Mark VIIIs, 94-5 Mustangs, and the Taurus. I think the Lincoln fan is ~5200cfm, but it draws over 40 amps continuous.

pretty good guess, the lincoln fan actually pulls 4600cfm, and draws 33 amps continuos, but has a 100 draw on start up.

 

[StephenMarsh]

Hotrod Air sells a direct fit electric fan with integral shroud. It pulls a lot of air. I had to slightly trim shroud edges, but fit wasn't too bad. Runs on thermostat and keeps my motor at running temp ok.

123classics.com has a simlar set-up, drop in, plug up, done

 

[65ShelbyClone]

pretty good guess, the lincoln fan actually pulls 4600cfm, and draws 33 amps continuos, but has a 100 draw on start up.

Yeah, that was just what I remembered from my days over in 5.0 tech. Reports seem to vary depending on the person spouting them. The Mark VII fan seems to be one of the most powerful electrics out there, but almost no one will(or can) use them without at least a 130A alternator. I wonder if a "soft start" 12VDC motor controller could knock down the power-up current....

 

[mustangman1974]

well when I researched the radiator I was told by fluidyne that it was 16 fins per in. The Modine copper I have is only 14 at the best. As far as electrics go there is no room for anything bigger then 14in. The clearance between the pulley and radiator is 2.5 in. I was actually thinking of cutting the stone guard to fit a 10 or 14 in pusher, but I have't looked into that closely. I pickuped a new coil and MBI module to install and possible advance the timing some. I was thinking of riching it up a bit at the economy level. I can deal with crappy gas mileage I just want my car to run cool.

 

[mustangman1974]

OK Update. Been reading alot regarding mustangs and overheating, seems everyone has the same problem and the best solution only gives idle of 210. I opened up my search to imports and others ( did pentance to blue oval) and I read people having cooling problems when they removed their lower dust cover. the pictures I saw made it seem like the dust covers went from radiator to front of engine. I am wondering if anyone has fabbed something similiar? It was mentioned that the hot air gets rotated around and causes the radiator to suck hot air. ????

 

[C0V3R]

Bump up the timing. It will probably reduce the temp.

 

[Cannoball888]

well when I researched the radiator I was told by fluidyne that it was 16 fins per in. The Modine copper I have is only 14 at the best. As far as electrics go there is no room for anything bigger then 14in. The clearance between the pulley and radiator is 2.5 in. I was actually thinking of cutting the stone guard to fit a 10 or 14 in pusher

2.5" between the pulley and rad? You should have more clearance than that. Most people can fit a puller fan even with the Fluidyne.

The Modine copper rad may have only 14 fins per inch, but unbeknownst to many copper radiates heat way better than aluminum---this is why aluminum rads are thicker and with more fins to compensate for the metals reduced thermal conductivity.

A pusher fan is far less efficient than a puller because it actually blocks airflow because it is in front of the rad, and so you it must have a greater cfm pusher to compensate.

 

[jbuening]

One thing that has happened to me in the past has been air trapped under the temp sending unit, creating steam and giving false temperature readings. Since you are posting actual temp readings, i assume you have a good aftermarket temperature gauge and not relying on the stock electronic unit. Is your aftermarket gauge electronic or mechanical? Loosen your sending unit unit coolant starts to leak out and then retighten. See if that helps. I've also heard of people drilling a 1/8" hole at the top of the thermostat to prevent air from being trapped behind the thermostat.