Geordie's 65 Coupe - Engine

[geordie]

Per my previous thread (now sadly history), I’ve removed the engine from the car. I trawled through the bunch of receipts and notes that I’ve got from the previous owner. I knew the guy so I think that this is accurate. Below is a summary of my engine components. It was rebuilt about 10,000 miles ago. I’m not going to race the car. I’m looking for something that looks good, sounds good with good performance.

The main reason for removing the engine was to clean up and detail the engine compartment. Plus, I’ve never done it before so I removed it as a learning experience.

Engine – 302 cubic inch V8, bored .030 oversize, balanced, with a Hi-Po (65) torsional damper, ARP rod bolts used.
High flow 351 Windsor 11:1 compression heads (with longer head bolts and longer hardened push rods).
Roller rockers with guide plates, screw in rocker studs with double valve springs and anti-pump lifters,
Ford Cobra Dual plane intake manifold (completely open below the carburetor).
Ford Motorsport (P/N M-6250-A312) camshaft using flat top hydraulic lifters (duration intake 290 deg., exhaust 300 deg., lift intake .472, exhaust .496)
Edelbrock 600 cfm 4 barrel 1405 Performer series manual choke carburetor.
Windage tray with Cobra oil pan, high volume oil pump with HD drive shaft
Roller HD timing chain.
Petronix Ignitor II breakerless ignition, Flame Thrower II coil,
Aluminum 65 Hi-Po water pump,
Lakewood engine cradle mounts ’67 style.
Headers (not matched length)

Transmission – Tremec TR-3550 five speed manual.
Rear end – Ford 9 inch, LSD.

I’ thinking about replacing the intake manifold with something a bit more modern. Edelbrock have suggested their RPM Air Gap manifold #7521. I would like to replace the cast aluminum oil pan as I don’t like the style and I’ve already stripped the thread on the drain plug once. In addition I’m looking for a high performance fuel pump to replace the stock one.

What I’m looking for is some feedback on the engine specification, some suggestions on replacement parts and some guidance on where to look for guidance on performance upgrades. Thanks in advance

 

[geordie]

So has anybody, had any experiences with the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intakes?

 

[302 coupe]

I don't understand what you mean by "Ford Cobra Dual plane intake manifold (completely open below the carburetor)." Sound more like a single plane if its open beneath the carb. Is there a casting number or part number on it, can you post a pic? The intake you already have may be better or equivalent to the air gap.

 

[geordie]

Thanks for input. The existing manifold is a Ford Cobra Dual plane intake manifold, I can confirm that it is dual plane. The previous owner used the words 'completely open below the carburetor' in his notes. I thought that this might mean something to an engine guy. I'll post a pic and get a casting number. I'll try and get more information tonight. Thanks.

 

[geordie]

Another question. Can I expect that a aftermarket intake manifold for a 302 block will fit my 302 block with 351 heads. In other works are the intake positions and general external casting and machining for 351 heads the same as 302 heads?

What's that old song 'there are more questions than answers'?

 

[302 coupe]

the intake will work fine on 351 heads, so long as the heads are on a 302 or 289 block.

 

[1320stang]

It sounds like the PO took out the plenum divider in the intake, which usually pretty much ruins the effectiveness of the intake.

 

[geordie]

No, the plenum divider is still there in the intake. The PO did have about half and inch of spacers between the carb and the intake that were not divided though.

 

[geordie]

In reply to 302 coupe's previous post. I took a look at my existing intake tonight. Comparing it to the Ford Racing catalog it looks most like a 289/302 Performance intake, M-9424-A321. It has the word 'COBRA' in large raised letters at the front. At the back of the intake it has 'SIMS-9424-A' in small raised letters. Unfortunately I don't have a photograpgh to post. Plan is to remove this for a closer inspection. But my current thinking is to replace this with an RPM Air Gap from Edelbrock.

Does anybody recognise the Ford Intake? Does the word 'COBRA' imply that this is anything other than a regular 289/302 Performance intake?

Can i expect better performance form the Air Gap?

 

[mustangdave]

I think you'll do better with the Air Gap intake. Those are outrageous duration numbers for that combo. Heads alone do not determine compression. You must compute the pistons, heads, and gasket thickness to determine that. If your compression is that high you should be running hi octane gas; unless your timing is retarded quite a bit.

 

[302 coupe]

I think the A321 intake is the same as a Performer RPM, if you switch to an Air Gap, don't expect any substantial hp gains. The money could be spent on a better carb though, IMO.

 

[LMan]

that Ford intake is a copy of the Edelbrock F4B, which is (was) the original version of today's Performer. Its a good, basic, dual plane intake.

You are teetering on the ragged edge of streetability. What are your plans for this car?

 

[krash kendall]

No, the plenum divider is still there in the intake. The PO did have about half and inch of spacers between the carb and the intake that were not divided though.

You really should have a one piece divided spacer in there. I bought a one inch kit from edelbrock for mine. It comes with new studs gaskets, etc.

You PO probably discovered the 1405 carb didn't fit between the tall valve covers and went with an off-the-shelf fix instead of the proper way.

 

[geordie]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm running 93 octane unleaded fuel per the PO recommendations.

I want to keep the car streetable. I have no ambitions to go racing, either drag or circuit racing. The most use that the car got before I removed the engine was a weekly trip to Starbucks with the kids, the occasional blast up the highway, and a few local car shows.

I've removed the engine but I didn't really want to mess with the internals. I'm not that knowledgeable. MustangDave's comments about the cam went over the top of my head. I'll need to do some more reading.

Given that I don't want to mess with the block. I want to keep it streetable but with good performance and good sound. The PO was even older than me. I get the impression that he stuck almost totally to Ford Racing Parts. Some of the existing parts look very old. Clean but old. I would like to update them for reliability, performance and looks.

My current plans are:

Strip down the engine intake, water pump, timing cover and oil pan
Paint the block
Replace the intake with a Air Gap RPM or stick with current
(Consider comment above about replacing the carb. What would you guys recommend?)
Replace the oil pan with a Canton Racing, I don't like the Cobra pan.
Replace the fuel pump with an aftermarket one.
Replace the dual point distributor with an aftermarket MSD or similar.
I've got new valve covers.
Repaint the engine bay
Replace the wiring in the engine bay
Reinstall the engine
Beg the wife for funds for a new paint job.

Thats the plan

 

[krash kendall]

My current plans are:

Replace the intake with a Air Gap RPM or stick with current
(Consider comment above about replacing the carb. What would you guys recommend?)

If you stick with the current intake, get it hot tanked. Most parts shops with machine shops will do this for about $20. Your carb is very streetable and incredibly user friendly. I'm not saying to stick with it, just merely stating the point. I have the same one with electric choke and have been driving it for about year without a single stall. Not even once.

Replace the oil pan with a Canton Racing, I don't like the Cobra pan.

I recall you stripped the drain bolt in the pan so the point of replacing it is moot. If you go with a stock pan, however, get the one for the early mustang. It has two dimples in it to clear the crossmember. It's a tight fit down there.

Replace the dual point distributor with an aftermarket MSD or similar.

Definately do that. You won't miss adjusting the old one.

I've got new valve covers.

As I said earlier, if you require a carb spacer (depending on how high the rise is on your manifold choice) to get the carb high enough to clear the valve covers, make sure you get the proper one or the flow though the intake could be hindered. Don't put an open spacer on a dual plane manifold.

Specifically on the carb clearance issue: With stock valve covers the 1405 will fit nicely. With tall covers, the kick-down horn and the choke assembly hit the valve covers (mine are edelbrock tall, elite) before the carb meets the intake and require a spacer.

 

[geordie]

Engine Coolant Drian Plug - Snapped

Some quick advice required please. I flushed the engine coolant passages last night and decided to remove the engine drain plug to drain out the remaining water. The plug appeared to come out fairly easily however I discovered that some PO (not me honestly) had previously snapped the plug and then reinserted the end of the plug, to hide the problem.

As the plug is now weeping I've decided to remove the portion of the plug in the block with an 'easy out' kit. I've never done this before so would appreciate any tips or recommendations that you guys have. For instance what is a really good quality penetrating oil that I can use? Thanks in advance.

 

[krash kendall]

Make sure to center punch it very well before drilling and use the largest easy out you can. Tap it in lightly with a small hammer before turning it or they tend to just cut the hole into a taper and spin.

The last thing you want to do is break it off in there as they have a high carbide content and are impossible to drill out.

Which plug are you talking about anyway?

 

[geordie]

The block is a 302, and the plug is a small socket headed drain plug on the drivers side below the rear cylinder just above the oil pan flange.

 

[krash kendall]

Gotcha! You may also want to add a little heat to it if it is really stubborn.

 

[geordie]

Which type of extractor would you guys recommend, the left hand thread screw in type, or the drive in with a hammer type?