Going for a budget 11-12sec fox...?

ritc · Oct 5, 2006

Dont know if I should post this here or "5.0L Talk" but I will soon be coming into some extra money about $3000-$3500(MAX I want to spend), and would like to know if I could make it into the 11-12sec times?

I've already got a '90 hatch/manual LX with supposly 92,000miles sitting at my bro's body shop waiting for it to get painted that I got for $900, so far I found out it has upgraded spark plug wires/distrubutor, 65mm TB(edlebrock?), some kind of short shifter, flowmaster muffs with unknown SS H-pipes with 2.5" piping, pretty grabby clutch(previous owner said it was replaced), and I believe rear end gears cause it just seems to spin these cheesy lookin 15's easier in 2nd than 1st , plus im always in 2nd/3rd while just driving it around the block, but I have yet to get underneath and check.

I would eventually like to go turbo i've seen a few at the local dragway and just love them but for now i'd like to go all motor with 100-150 dry shot, from there I wouldnt know where to start, I was looking on dragtimes.com and most 11-12sec N20 fox bodies are running AFR heads with E303/F303 cams or AFR cams I believe is this a good setup? And about how much do these heads usually go for? What intake manifold would go good with my 65mm TB? Would investing in a detriot locker with 31spline axles be a good investment when running drag radials/slicks? How long would a stock T5 take this setup for?

As far as tires i've read many mixed results on the M/T's 15" tires, are the 255's street drags too much for stock rearend? Would the 235's still grab for a good 60ft?

jrichker · Oct 5, 2006

Cheap combo - Thumper ported stock heads - http://thumperoforangepark.com/

Tmoss ported intake http://www.tmossporting.com/

FMS stainless steel shorty headers - http://www.summitracing.com

Do a search on the names & you will find guys that are happy with the results and didn't break their wallet. Add a 150 shot on top of that and with good traction, you could be running in the high 11's. See Tmoss's tec article on what's possible with the modified stock parts at http://www.tmossporting.com/tabid/3517/Default.aspx

The T5 won't last long at those power levels if you powershift, so save your money for a Tremec 3550 or TKO trans. The latest variants of the TKO are the TKO 500 & TKO 600 which will take lots of abuse and never complain. See http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/TKO.asp for more information.

bullitstang1313 · Oct 5, 2006

Do you really want to go budget or are you trying to get a good base to add a turbo to later? AFR heads are not budget heads.

If you plan on using Nitrous or forced induction you better make sure the internals of your engine can stand up or you are going to have to do something about it later on.

I'd suggest looking at some magazines to see what combos people are running as well as our sigs (bottom of our posts).

rd · Oct 5, 2006

If you just take out the excess weight, and you have 373 or better gears, just put some Drag Radials or slicks on it, and it should be in the 12's.

Note that a NA engine should have all the compression you can stand, but a turbo setup is the opposite, so you can't really build one to run well both ways.

bullitstang1313 · Oct 5, 2006

Note that a NA engine should have all the compression you can stand, but a turbo setup is the opposite, so you can't really build one to run well both ways

Well put, I forgot to mention that.

ritc · Oct 5, 2006

Oh I am definitly not trying to build a double personality budget stang, I dont think budget and proper turbo setup even belong in the same post , I know as far as compression and cam options they will be totally different when it comes down to boosting it the right way and getting it tuned right with a proper rebuilt/crate motor to run a turbo setup. I was also reading the stock headers arent really much of a restriction when it comes to N/A power on a stock 302 block, plus when I go turbo eventually i'd lose whatever headers I had bought because most kits i've seen already come with custom headers for the turbo setup.

Basically my two main things to focus on with the money would be to get the driveline out of the way that could take the abuse of N20 runs and double to take boost runs as well, minus the t-5 i'll leave it in for as long as it'll take the abuse then go TKO all day, but for now I was reading about a "spool" with 31 spline axles and 3.73 or 4.10 gears(gear suggestion?), would this be a pretty good setup rearend wise? Would I need anything else or will it just go into my stock 8.8" w/o any other mods/parts? (definitly doesnt look pricey either)

Second I would like to get some decent N/A mods thats why I was referencing to AFR heads and some sort of cam with a good intake manifold combo, Cam wise I wanted something pushing the limit for N20 are there specific ones out there? Or is E303 or F303(more extreme?) good choices? As far as heads/manifold I'll read more about the thumper/tmoss options that were posted above.

As far as drag radials whats recommended for sub 2.0 60fts? Im mostly stuck on the 235/60/15 R2 compound mickey thompson street drag radials, any other suggestions?

You guys have been a great help and yes bullitstang1313 I'd like to go with a GOOD base, most other auto forums i've been on with my past cars people never took noobies seriously, I hope the info keeps on coming its making my search and my budget of 3000-3500 seem achievable.

ritc · Oct 5, 2006

I take back what I said about not wanting headers, im so used to modding my previous lil 13sec toy which was a FWD Quaife equipped 24V Yamaha DOHC V6 with a lil N20 with a $800-$1100 tag on headers .

Found the FMS shorties but saw that they are "untuned" and offroad would that mean no O2 bungs? Also found "tuned" (PSM-70-1068) Pacesetter Shorty Headers with 1 5/8 primaries and 3" collecter, would this be a header setup that would need a custom header back exhaust 2.75"-3"? Or would it bolt up to my aftermarket H-pipe(with some sort of reducer/adaptor?) being as it says on summit that they have standard OE fittings/flanges(1/4" flange thickness).

As far as heads I think I definitly pointed the right way, or the fact that the thumper site is full of 12sec texts that got me , but definitly going with thumper heads, do they come with roller/rockers is there a certain ratio/brand recommend for N20 and these heads?

Now what should I go for as far as a nitrious cam? So many options on summit, i'd like to go with something thats pushin the limits for streets(if not race only with some street) plus i've always liked the sound of a cam on any car, I dont mind a lopey idle at all or having to raise it to 1000RPM+, my previous car had a race camshaft setup with a chipped controlled 1250RPM idle and new redline 8000RPM+ .

jrichker · Oct 5, 2006

FMS stainless steel shorty headers - see http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS-M-9430-N95&N=700+115&autoview=sku.

The O2 sensor bungs are part of the H pipe. These are a one for one bolt on swap with the stock headers. Use your original H or X pipe, no modifications needed. It's what I am running, and the fit & finish is very good.

The Thumper heads come without any rockers. You can use your choice, including the stock stamped steel ones if you want. Check out the optional valve spring packages, that may be important to you.

ritc · Oct 5, 2006

jrichker said:
FMS stainless steel shorty headers - see http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS-M-9430-P50&N=700+115&autoview=sku.

The O2 sensor bungs are part of the H pipe. These are a one for one bolt on swap with the stock headers. Use your orginal H or X pipe, no modifications needed. It's what I am running, and the fit & finish is very good.

The Thumper heads come without any rockers. You can use your choice, including the stock stamped steel ones if you want. Check out the optional valve spring packages, that may be important to you.

I'm assuming since I have aftermarket H-pipes w/cats(soon to be removed) bolted onto stock headers I should have an issue there then.

As far the rockers there pretty new territory to me coming from a DOHC build knowledge, i've read up a bit and basically I know lighter metals will free up HP because of there weight, but what about the ratio? Is it directly related to what head/valves I buy or cam I use? Do I just buy rocker arms alone, or do they have combo's with rocker arms/lifters/push rods?

jrichker · Oct 5, 2006

If you do Thumper, heads, check with Thumper (Mike) on what he recommends. If I remember correctly, he has a package with cam, heads, springs, etc.

25thmustang · Oct 5, 2006

Budget combo?

Like stated above Tmoss, Thumper, and USED bolt ons then throw some MT ET Street Radials on it suspension pieces and a 150 shot and you should be well into the 11s.

jrichker · Oct 5, 2006

I just did a sanity check on the FMS part numbers. The FMS catalog says to use the M-9430-P50 headers, which are 86-93 specific.

gcwh02 · Oct 5, 2006

do exactly what jrickter said, theres no better "budget" way IMO

ritc · Oct 5, 2006

Definitly sounds like a plan, again thanks for all the help everyone, all I need to get sorted out now is a rearend option...

Would the "spool" 31 spline, with 31spline Morsy axles be a good setup?

Is the Venom dry kit one of the better options when going N20 with a fox body?

25thmustang · Oct 5, 2006

The Moser stuff is good, and for a race car or a street car you dont drive much other than nice days or nights would be a good route. Spools in daily drivers would be rough and up to the owner. While the rear is out maybe have the axle tubes welded and you will have an extremely strong rear...

Personally I would get a wet kit, but thats 100% my personal opinion.

Flavadave4 · Oct 5, 2006

25thmustang said:
Budget combo?

Like stated above Tmoss, Thumper, and USED bolt ons then throw some MT ET Street Radials on it suspension pieces and a 150 shot and you should be well into the 11s.

Thats what I am doing, I havnt been able to get to the track yet but I hope to have some N20 next year and be low 12's

ritc · Oct 6, 2006

For a 150shot what method would be safer dry or wet? I've seen many dry kits on like drag times.com not many wet kits, most other kits I find only go up 125HP, what brand and mehtod do you guys suggest?

onefstsnake · Oct 6, 2006

a dry kit only injects nitrous.
A wet kit injects nitrous and fuel.

A wet kit is your best choice for big spray.

I wouldnt go over a 50 shot with the dry setup.

ritc · Oct 6, 2006

onefstsnake said:
a dry kit only injects nitrous.
A wet kit injects nitrous and fuel.

A wet kit is your best choice for big spray.

I wouldnt go over a 50 shot with the dry setup.

Any particular brand in mind? Or will any big shot wet kit do?

bullitstang1313 · Oct 6, 2006

The mini spool might not be too friendly on the street. You could always have the stock Traction Lok rebuilt or if you don't mind spending a little more you could go with a nice limited slip differential like a Detroit True Trac or an Auburn. As far as cam, you might call a cam manufacturer or cam machinist to see what kind of custom cam would be a good setup. As far as foller rockers go, you'll need to make sure that you don't have any piston to valve clearance. 1.6 are the stock ratio. Good luck with all of this and welcome to Stangnet.

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