Got some goodies today!

[hotmustang331]

I'm not too sure how someone figures how how you shifted by looking at your trap speed, but you are correct Benny, there are a lot of variables. Altitude (DA) and so many other driver variables. You are also correct that the speed shown on the timeslip is not your actual speed, but the average speed over the last 66 feet.

Hotmustang331 is correct in pointing out your timing. If you truly only are running 15° of total timing (not timing advance) then you have a bunch of room for timing, especially now that you will be intercooled. What does your spark vs. MAF curve look like right now?

Yea Tim @ MPH sets his tune to not change based on load...So wouldnt that stop any timing advance?
If so, I guess the 15*s of timing hes saying would for sure be total (global) then correct? (SO I know for sure haha) Thanks Laser

 

[jivepepper]

You had headers plenum and tb thats where the other 20 hp came from. Thats if you made around 400 hot. I made 381 with the 3.3" pulley with an or mid pipe and catback. The motor at the time had about 15k. That was the last run of the dyno tune no cool down. I never did a cold pull?

When I made 431 I had prochamber h pipe, catback, plenum/tb, powerpipe ,and IC at 11psi and 16* of timing. That was the first tune on the new shortblock..

You have great drag setup thats why the good ET. Your just making 20-30 more hp that most others with identical setups. But with the lower trap speed it just wasn't adding up. You must have shifted at 4k to do a 108 trap.

When I did the 121 at 12.6 I had a stock suspension gears and differential with 140K on it. Needless to say only one side was getting traction. I was leaving at 1.5 to 2K Rpms. I was also on stock tires. But I did add headers after the tune and fixed a problem with my IC setup so I average about 13.5-14psi now? I'm about 2800' above sea level.

You have a great car and I meant no disrespect.

 

[BennyBlown2v]

You have great drag setup thats why the good ET. Your just making 20-30 more hp that most others with identical setups. But with the lower trap speed it just wasn't adding up. You must have shifted at 4k to do a 108 trap.

I don't have a drag setup...when I ran that pass I had a cobra IRS with 575lb coilovers LOL... My 60ft was like a 1.88 or something with ET street radials. Not exactly perfect. Big thing is that without an intercooler the charge just keeps getting hotter, and hotter, and hotter - losing more and more power so by the time I hit the traps I'm barely accelerating. I'm really not making any more than most with similar setups Another reason for the big jump from the first dyno to the second is I switched from IRS to solid, so it might show 5-10hp higher than it would have otherwise.

Anyways... Buildup will be coming soon, either this, or next weekend!

 

[jivepepper]

My 60ft was like a 1.88 or

Better than my 2.28 lol. If the theory holds true. That for every tenth saved in the first 60' nets 2 on the big end. Then I would have ran a 11.8 with a 1.8 60' still crappy though lol. I really have to baby it until third since the trac loc is was wore out.

I will have cams, gears, 31 spline build, with welded torque boxes, and axel tubes this year. I will also be running Mt slicks. So hopefully I will have this tub in the 11's

Good luck with the build its not to hard.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Yea Tim @ MPH sets his tune to not change based on load...So wouldnt that stop any timing advance?
If so, I guess the 15*s of timing hes saying would for sure be total (global) then correct? (SO I know for sure haha) Thanks Laser

Well there are several different spark tables. I was assuming that Benny was meaning his Borderline Spark table was set to a max of 15°, which is extremely low given his setup. But I would have to see his tune (and I would love to see another Tim tune) to be sure. A couple of the important spark tables are the Borderline, MBT, and Max Allowed. If the Borderline Spark ends up being higher than the MBT (reference) table, then the spark will not go over the MBT table referenced values. The if you change the global multiplier, it even trumps that calculation. The MBT and borderline curves will normally look fairly simialar. A lot of the tuning is done with the borderline and max allowed tables as you can normalize dynamic spark all the way to 1.999969 load. Spark is only normalized up to a 1.6 load with the stock tune.

An easy to way to tell if your final spark values are being what is called clipped or retarded, would be to datalog your spark source. When you look at your data log you will see a column labeled Spark Source and it will typically be a value of 2. If you see a value of 1 or even -1, that usually means that one of the other tables is clipping the final calculated spark values.

The global multiplier is different from the borderline spark tables in that it lets the PCM calculate the final timing and then either retards or advances the timing based upon the programmed or learned multiplier. Don't get me started on tuning the spark curves by ignoring the all important load factors.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

I don't have a drag setup...when I ran that pass I had a cobra IRS with 575lb coilovers LOL... My 60ft was like a 1.88 or something with ET street radials. Not exactly perfect. Big thing is that without an intercooler the charge just keeps getting hotter, and hotter, and hotter - losing more and more power so by the time I hit the traps I'm barely accelerating. I'm really not making any more than most with similar setups Another reason for the big jump from the first dyno to the second is I switched from IRS to solid, so it might show 5-10hp higher than it would have otherwise.

Anyways... Buildup will be coming soon, either this, or next weekend!

I'd say you are pretty close to everyone else given your mods. You'll notice a big difference as long as that IC is efficient. You will have some more tuning room as well. Now you just need a N20 or Nitrogen spray bar to get that IC really cold.

 

[BennyBlown2v]

I'd say you are pretty close to everyone else given your mods. You'll notice a big difference as long as that IC is efficient. You will have some more tuning room as well. Now you just need a N20 or Nitrogen spray bar to get that IC really cold.

I actually asked some professional racer buddies of mine about that - pretty much consensus is that cooling the exterior of the IC is nearly pointless, much better gains can be had from a dry 10 shot directly prior to the intercooler. Exterior water spray is also considered to have negligible gains at best - so I'm just gonna stick to spraying everything down with my rose sprayer + ice cubes

 

[hotmustang331]

The track does not like the water sprayers...so thats out HAHA.

N20 spraying definatly helps....but I remember a guy on the SRT-4 forum doing it, and I think he made 20 more WHP. I think he was seeing below ambient temps also.
IMO I dont think the hassle and added weight is worth it....just like spraying, its not always there and if it is your going to be filling the bottle ALOT LOL.
You already will have alot of power...you should just spray the engine with a 50 shot if your going to do buy nitrous. You will get even cooler temps and more power.

 

[hotmustang331]

Thanks Laser...I appreciate the reply....looks like its a bit more involved than I thought haha.

I love learning about this stuff

 

[LaserRed01GT]

I actually asked some professional racer buddies of mine about that - pretty much consensus is that cooling the exterior of the IC is nearly pointless, much better gains can be had from a dry 10 shot directly prior to the intercooler. Exterior water spray is also considered to have negligible gains at best - so I'm just gonna stick to spraying everything down with my rose sprayer + ice cubes

When I first got serious about drag racing, my first fast car was a big single turbo 1989 Mustang GT. It had a Garrett 88mm turbo and a built 347. We made a custom spray bar and hit it with a 75 N20 jet for about 10 seconds right before turning on the top light. I would see IAT temps about 30-40° below ambient. It actually made my launch so much harder that I had to adjust my 2 step. 2 steps back then were not really known about and everybody always asked me how I built so much boost off the line.

Spray bars do work no doubt about it. Now, that said, of course a air to water intercooler will work better because it will stay colder longer. It won't get as cold as the spray bat IC, but it will stay colder longer.

But like hotmustang eluded to, you get tired of refilling bottles after awhile. I am tired of refilling mine. I only get about 5-6 runs before the pressure starts to drop off on my 10lb bottle.

 

[BennyBlown2v]

But like hotmustang eluded to, you get tired of refilling bottles after awhile. I am tired of refilling mine. I only get about 5-6 runs before the pressure starts to drop off on my 10lb bottle.

Yeah, that's the consensus I came to talking to some of my friends. Just wondering...are you a shop owner or something? You're very knowledgeable - in a non-offensive and good way; much appreciated!

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Yeah, that's the consensus I came to talking to some of my friends. Just wondering...are you a shop owner or something? You're very knowledgeable - in a non-offensive and good way; much appreciated!

Yep, I have owned several shops over the years. South Texas Chassis and KG Motorsports. STC was primarily a shop that I had building 25.xx chassis/cages for fox bodies and a few f-bodies. KG Motorsports was more or less started for doing big block blown alcohol motors and a few TF motors for my friends TF Hydro boat. I started working on Mustangs and F-bodies on the side and I got hooked doing street/strip stuff. KG Motorsports was sold so that I could purchase an IT company that was too good of a deal to pass up. I just moved to Florida about 7 months ago, and I have leased a 2,800 sq/ft building and I am in the process of setting it all up. I have been drag racing since I was 21 years old after I got out of the NAVY.