help building a part list & budget...

[boingo]

Hey folks,

I don't post much here, but I do frequent the site and try to read many of the great posts found here. Anyway, little over a year ago, my father and I finished a restoration on his 68 fastback. We spend probably 90% of the budget on the body & interior since it was a complete rust bucket, that the majority of the steering, suspension, transmission is all stock (or at least new stock replacement parts). Still has the stock 289, 3spd manual trans, but we did throw the granada disc brake setup on it.

here's what she looks like now:

As the car sits in storage now, the whole mod bug is biting pretty hard I am looking to put together a plan, part list, and a budget to take my dad's mustang to the next phase, and really make it a complete, solid ride. We're not looking to race it, but to make it a solid ride that we will feel confident sitting behind the wheel.

I'm not very knowledgeable about the complex details that make upgrading the supsension, and reducing 'bumpsteer', let alone the various options that are out there. I've been reading various threads about products, and they all sound great, but it's difficult to make a decision when you're not sure about fit & finish and overall satisfaction from the greater mustang community.

I would greatly appreciate everyone's feedback to help make this happen. Please list any additional items such as sub-frame connectors, etc. It's just tough to know the pros and cons of these things, and hopefully ya'll can shed some light on these areas for us. Thanks in advance.

Areas I'm wanting to begin listing out are:

- Steering kits:
Manual Rack & Pinion kits

- Suspension kits:
Front & Back

- Brakes:
Front & Rear, we already have the granada swap up front, but looking to improve this more

- Transmission:
Car has the stock 3speed manual.


My reasoning for this post and help to make this list is two-part, 1) to help continue the 'fun' my dad and I have working on the car, and 2) I made the decision to put money into this classic car, rather than purchase an 06. rather than spending 30k for the car, plus everything I would want to put on it to put more of the retro feel into an 06, I could take much less money and raise the 68 to a great road handler, and have something very special.


I appreciate anyone's input, Thanks.

 

[LMan]

 

[John Z]

I like your approach. Very nice looking car! You fixed the foundation of the car, so you can start building up the car. Your first upgrade was disk brakes so you have safety in mind. Your now ready for the performance goodies. This would be my approach.
The stock steering is fine if it is functioning properly. I would inspect all the components and replace any worn parts. If your steering box is "loose" you can try to adjust it - see the FORD shop manual for the procedure. If it cannot be adjusted, then there are worn parts and it needs to be either rebuilt or replaced (Flaming River makes a good replacement for the STOCK). I do not think rack and pinion is cost effective. However, if you do decide it is a must have for you, research the options carefully. There are some units that just do not fit and cost over $1500.
Suspension - drive the car for a while, do you like the way it handles? Yes - job done. No - Post specific problems and check for responses. You may want to go ahead and replace the front sway bar with a larger diameter unit. The shelby drop is good and free, but requires removing the front springs - are you ready for this. While you have the springs out you may consider replacing them with progressive rate springs. New shocks at all four corners is usually a good thing with older cars. Read and study on the options before purchasing. If the rear end is sagging then new springs are in order. Be careful with putting "performance" springs in the car, you may not like the results on the street.
OH - where are we at with respect to tires and wheels? Lots of room to improve handling here.
On to the gitty up stuff.
IMHO most people start their search for performance at the wrong end of the car. If you look at a hp-rpm chart for an engine, you will find that with stock gears have you operating in the low hp range of the engine most of the time. The cure for this is gears! I like 3.55:1 for the street. A traction lock is a good thing to add while you have the rear end apart. There are several options, so make another post when you are ready for this step.
Once you have the gears in, you may not be happy with the engine speed while on the freeway. The solution to this is a T5 from a 89-94 Mustang. This is almost a bolt in swap and there are lots of pages that lead you through the process.
You are now ready for the engine. Performance is a matter of getting air and fuel into and out of the engine, along with getting the explosion to occur at the right time! There are so many options that I do not know where to start. You want to balance the intake, processing and exhaust capabilities. Edelbrock has put together some nice packages that include carb, intake and cam. Just do not go too big with the carb. A 600 cmf carb is more than enough for almost any 302. You will want some headers (IMHO tri-y or shorties are good for street cars) and dual exhaust with high flow mufflers, but again be careful with a street car. You do not want a car that is so loud that you do not enjoy driving it.

How am I doing - should be enough to keep you busy for a couple of days or more.
Have fun.

 

[boingo]

Thanks for the comments John Z ....

The stock steering is fine if it is functioning properly. I would inspect all the components and replace any worn parts. If your steering box is "loose" you can try to adjust it - see the FORD shop manual for the procedure. If it cannot be adjusted, then there are worn parts and it needs to be either rebuilt or replaced (Flaming River makes a good replacement for the STOCK). I do not think rack and pinion is cost effective. However, if you do decide it is a must have for you, research the options carefully. There are some units that just do not fit and cost over $1500.

the steering tends to feel a bit loose/sloppy when centered and 'tightens' when in corners....if a R&P wouldn't be cost effective (I take it that the improvement over stock is minimal?) what would be some better alternatives?


Suspension - drive the car for a while, do you like the way it handles? Yes - job done. No - Post specific problems and check for responses. You may want to go ahead and replace the front sway bar with a larger diameter unit. The shelby drop is good and free, but requires removing the front springs - are you ready for this. While you have the springs out you may consider replacing them with progressive rate springs. New shocks at all four corners is usually a good thing with older cars. Read and study on the options before purchasing. If the rear end is sagging then new springs are in order. Be careful with putting "performance" springs in the car, you may not like the results on the street.

while driving, the front end seems to raise up a bit...not sure if it really does but it feels like it. We have new shocks, but original springs in front and original leafs still in rear. I forget what kind of shocks they are, but they were the basic grey ones ones out of NPD I believe.


OH - where are we at with respect to tires and wheels? Lots of room to improve handling here.

For now, and probably quite a while, we have 215/65/15s BFG Radial T/As. I don't think they'll be changing do a wider/lower profile tire anytime soon.


On to the gitty up stuff.
IMHO most people start their search for performance at the wrong end of the car. If you look at a hp-rpm chart for an engine, you will find that with stock gears have you operating in the low hp range of the engine most of the time. The cure for this is gears! I like 3.55:1 for the street. A traction lock is a good thing to add while you have the rear end apart. There are several options, so make another post when you are ready for this step.
Once you have the gears in, you may not be happy with the engine speed while on the freeway. The solution to this is a T5 from a 89-94 Mustang. This is almost a bolt in swap and there are lots of pages that lead you through the process.

Great info here, This car may have been a V8, but it wasn't a performance car that's for sure. The comments for gears, locker, and T5 tranny will definitely make the list, as well as a mild cam upgrade...I don't have much experience in engine upgrades, and all that goes with it...I know each of these areas could be their own thread easily, just hoping for a little banter on what things to consider to improve engine performance as well and the tranny and gears.


You are now ready for the engine. Performance is a matter of getting air and fuel into and out of the engine, along with getting the explosion to occur at the right time! There are so many options that I do not know where to start. You want to balance the intake, processing and exhaust capabilities. Edelbrock has put together some nice packages that include carb, intake and cam. Just do not go too big with the carb. A 600 cmf carb is more than enough for almost any 302. You will want some headers (IMHO tri-y or shorties are good for street cars) and dual exhaust with high flow mufflers, but again be careful with a street car. You do not want a car that is so loud that you do not enjoy driving it.

Right now the engine is completely stock. We do have dual exhaust on the machine, wish I had a picture....it was done by a great shop, and was definitly a quality job. Still using stock headers, and will have to look into all the options for those as well. I'll take a look at the Edelbrock packages, they sound intersting...not looking to make a monster, but some civilized chaos under the hood would be nice

How am I doing - should be enough to keep you busy for a couple of days or more.
Have fun.

Thanks again for the ideas, I hope to hear some more feedback on parts, etc....I'm not looking for pricing information, just the nuts and bolts that I should put on the rebuild plan. maybe folks can use this kind of like, not so much a dream-build, but rather a 'If I were building it into a mild street machine, I'd do......'. thanks in advance

 

[John Z]

With the stock system the steering will never feel like a modern car. Some play with the wheel centered is expected. If you're not comfortable with it, then try to find a "gray" hair mechanic to drive the car and give you an opinion. Cost effective means that I'm not spending $1500+ to upgrade. You may have a different opinion. Others must or else the venders wouldn't be selling any kits.

Same thing with my suspension comments. Since your springs are ~40 years old they may be an issue. I think OEM style shocks are OK for a street driver. Again these cars were not designed to the same handling standards as modern cars.

I have the same size and type tires as you. I think they are great for the street. I know the fad is to put the most rubber possible under the car, but I do not see the point for a street driver.

Gears and a T5 are a great combination for performance and cruising. In my original post I said use a 89-94 T5. I had the dates wrong. From 85 -89 the T5 was rated for 260 ft-lb of torque, 90-94 was rated for 300 ft-lb. With the tire size you have the earlier transmission would be fine. I have an 88.

I like your description of civilized chaos under the hood. That would be a good description of my car. Basically a 302 with Edelbrock performer parts, JBA shorty headers and a good dual exhaust.

Even with this set up, it feels like I'm pushing the car when keeping up with traffic. There is more of a sensation of speed than law breakage! Remember the stock 302 was rated at about 210 hp gross. I get more than that out of my 4.0 liter Jeep Cherokee.

Good luck with your project.
Keep posting.

 

[boingo]

quick feedback - great!

now that's quick turnaround!

I agree with your thoughts on steering, whereas these classic cars will never feel like a modern vehicle's steering...as well as your thoughts on the cost of a R&P...If the improvement over stock is minimal at best, I would rather put new components for what it has, and put that money to better use elsewhere, such as gears and T5. (thanks for the correction on years). I think I might shoot an email to edelbrok and see what they have to say about engine performance parts. Obviously a trusted name, and can't really go wrong there.

As for tires, I tend to agree, fat rims/low profile tires look great on a car that's behind a velvet rope, but I'd rather have some meat underneath on the road....

I know what you mean about the sensation of speed, One thing we didn't do is put enough sound deadener down as well....we put one layer of a dampening material, but is definitely needs more. It adds weight, but since it's not a drag/roadrace car, that is pretty much a mute point.

Thanks again JohnZ, I really appreciate hearing your thoughts and comments about it all. I know it's a lot of ground to cover, and yer taking the time to do so means a lot.

 

[boingo]

ttt

just bringing it back up once, to see if anyone might have more feedback, thanks.