Help! Mustang wont start :(

mustanglover71

New Member
May 22, 2004
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Hi....Please someone help. I have 91 mustang 5.0, manual trans with about 181,000 miles. I was taking the car on errands and on the second stop, coming back out, the car would not crank. The starter turns over strong and continues to turn over strong, just wont crank :( There were no previous symptoms. It has been running smoothly up to now.

I have replaced battery, starter, fuel pump, fuel filter, distributor, and cap, spark plugs and wires all within the last year. Spark plugs had spark...yet I suspected Ignition coil and ignition module and replaced them both yesterday. The car still won't start. :bang: I then sprayed starter fluid into the intake today, the car briefly cranked and turned right off. This has been the only time it cranked up to this point. It seems that we may have eliminated spark or have we?? Soo...then I checked the fuel line below and pressure seemed fine to the touch. I checked the valve on the fuel sending line. A plentiful amount of gas came out. It seems like I have fuel at the rail and spark but still no crank. Could this still mean fuel pressure problem?? I am also wondering if ECC computer is bad. I am really stumped here :shrug: ...even if you have a hunch throw it my way. This is my only car and it's stuck at a shopping center parking lot waiting to be towed for abandonment. Please HELP!!! Are there things that I can check before replacing the computer?? Thank for your help in advance.
 
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If itll start for a short while with starting fluid then yes you have elminated a ignition problem and limited down to your not getting fuel. I would go out a buy a fuel pressuse gauge at your local auto parts store (should be pretty cheap) and check to see if you have good fuel pressure. If your pump is running and you got good fuel pressure than your looking at the injectors not firing. I would check my fuses make sure the pcm is getting power. Also check ground for the pcm.
I hope this helps good luck.
 
one point of clarification (to help you get good info in the future) - if it wont crank, that means it does not turn over (like trying to start it w/o pushing the clutch pedal down). you have nice detailed info in your post, so we know what you meant, but for future reference....

it sounds like you have done good diagnostics. when a fuel pump is on the way out, it often starts to show its weakness when it gets hot (the diaphram does not push as much fuel as it should).

i would really recommend following the advice given by RDGT - get a FP gauge and see what gives. i think parts stores will "loan" you one. a few psi can make all the difference.

RDGT, i may be wrong, but i think if he has spark, his computer, relays, and wiring are working (assuming we consider the FP circuit to be separate - there is a fusable link off the solenoid. then ground to the FP relay [from the puter], and 12 volt trigger, and output to the pump).

we should ask: do you hear the FP prime when the key is on.

another thing to perhaps try. if your pump is not up to speed, try cycling the ignition switch a few times before attempting to start (if you dont have a FP gauge to look at) - if you are not getting the pressure you should have due to a weak pump, cycling the pump a few times might get it to build pressure.

also, when pumps are dying like this, often when you let them cool off some, they will work for a short time again (till it heats up and fails again).

good luck, bud.
 
sorry about that, more info

Hi guys, thanks for the speedy response!

I did want to add that when I turn the key, and it tries to start up, you DO hear the fuel pump engage, and there is fuel in the line as well....the thing wants to start up. The starter will engage for as long as I hold it there, I dont hold it for too long. It just wont turn over.

Also, any chance that it is the fuel pump relay, pick up coil, or Manifold absolute pressure? Would the car have started with spraying the starter fluid into the intake if these were the issue?

Guess after replacing the Ignition coil and module, I thought I could narrow it down to a fuel delivery problem.

Any more help appreciated:)
 
mustanglover71 said:
Hi guys, thanks for the speedy response!

I did want to add that when I turn the key, and it tries to start up, you DO hear the fuel pump engage, and there is fuel in the line as well....the thing wants to start up. The starter will engage for as long as I hold it there, I dont hold it for too long. It just wont turn over.

Also, any chance that it is the fuel pump relay, pick up coil, or Manifold absolute pressure? Would the car have started with spraying the starter fluid into the intake if these were the issue?

Guess after replacing the Ignition coil and module, I thought I could narrow it down to a fuel delivery problem.

Any more help appreciated:)
you mean it wont catch, not turn over (it turns over, just wont catch). :)
(something like that may make a difference in the future or when you talk to a shop or friend on the phone). not tryin to be a jerk. i like it when people correct me.

did cyclin the key work? even if you had say, 20 psi, fuel would squirt out, but it is not necessarily enough to run the car (or start it).

if your pump is priming, your fuel circuit should be ok (FP relay, etc). the pump is the endpoint of that circuit - it runs, so you have a good circuit.

if your pick up were bad, i dont think you would have spark.

i dont have any more info for ya, for now. ill see if i can find a list of stuff.
good luck.
 
Your problem sounds almost exactly like one I was facing a few months back. The car would start with starting fluid and then shut off. I hooked up a fuel pressure gauge like others have recommended (relatively cheap from the local parts store) and I had correct fuel pressure. Additionally, when the key was turned off the fuel pressure drained slowly as it should. An additional symptom my stang had was that when the key was in the on position the fuel pump would run continously. I also had a consistent amperage draw when the key was off. After troubleshooting a few potential causes I borrowed a computer from a friend and swapped it out. Voila! the amperage draw, non-starting, constant fuel pump running all went away. I have since purchased a remanufactured computer from the local parts store and all is well.

Hope this helps.
 
correct fuel pressure reading??

Hi.......by the way.....what is the correct pressure amount when checking the fuel pressure ( ie the regulator ) I have also found out that my brother DID put an aftermarket fuel pump upgrade on the car when it was replaced within the last year. He did NOT put an adjustable regulator on it however. Would this cause the factory regulator to go bad. And if we put the adjustable on....how do we calibrate it correctly? Could this be the angel sent to fix my car??

Again, I appreciate all of your postings....getting the stang back to working order!
 
still confused:( going to replace regulator

HI all-

Well when our ride gets here we are going to check the vacuume line and replace the regulator... Here is the big picture of our problem;

In the last year the following things have been replaced;

Distributor
Filter
Pump (by the way this new pump was an after market pump)
Battery

Car had been running fine, not sluggish at all. Simply drove it to the store and it wouldnt fire up:(

Can hear the fuel pump engage when the key is on.
Car sure tries to start.......Turns over just wont catch. Did I get that right? LOL

So we Replaced TFI module and coil, still nothing

Checked spark, Battery, Plugs are dry (meaning no gas?) :shrug:

Starter fluid in the intake did fire up the engine for a few seconds.

The only thing we can tell is this stock regulator (diaphram) could have been messed up by the after market pump that was installed a few months ago. I guess we were just surprised that it took so long to kill the regulator and that it happened so suddenly. :shrug:

So we will go from here;

Going to check the vacuume line and probably replace the regulator to an adjustable today and see what happens. We will keep you posted. :bang:

If anyone has any other ideas please let us know, we are sure we cant leave this car in this parking lot too much longer before they tow it:( :mad:
 
something that might be worth trying: grab a noid light (from parts store - under 5 bucks) and put it on one of the injector harnesses. it will tell you if the injectors are getting juice to fire. IIRC, 12 volts should be supplied to the injectors from the FP relay (via the EEC relay before that). the puter sends ground to the injectors to pulse them.

just a thought. it sounds like you are on the right track. rather than assume a bad fuel pressure regulator, i would get a gauge and know for sure - otherwise you are introducing one more variable. BTW, if you pull the vac line on the regulator and see fuel in it, the regulator is bad (bad diaphram).
good luck.
 
OH NO! Another problem!

OK, boyfriend came back, and the starter is fried now! Rechecked the fuel pump, it is working. Rechecked Filter, it is in great shape. There is gas at the valve. We still have spark, but I think battery is finally wearing down.

So he rechecked the vaccum line at regulator for gas, cranked the car, no gas came out, went to turn the key off, and the damn starter wouldnt shut off, it just kept cranking! I am sure that this is because we have worn it out trying to start it...if this is more symptomatic of what our original problem could have been, someone let me know... Boyfriend still thinks it is the regulator, we will have to test it tomorrow if we can find a fuel pressure regulator. I am wondering if that is not the problem now though since no gas came out of that vacuum line?

Going to have to get that noid light, thanks for the suggestion, so we can check the injector harness. It sure seemed like the injectors were working though:(

We have decided we will just have to borrow the money to tow the car here to our house, so it doesnt get impounded.

Especially now that it sounds like the starter and battery will have to be replaced as well.

Thinking the old girl has just died Praying for a miracle
 
it should not be a big deal.... the battery crapped out from cranking, most probably (esp if it cranked enough to kill the solenoid). go get a new solenoid if it still sticks. they are cheap from the parts store. dont feel bad - i did the same thing to a crotchrocket once (too much cranking locked the solenoid closed).

your regulator vac line should not have any fuel in it. i think a stang will start with no vac line on it anyhow. you could also use a vac pump to see if it holds vac (if not, that suggests it is on the way out).

checking FP is the better way of finding out how you are doing fuel wise. there is a schrader valve on the fuel rail on the pass side. either im confused or i think you are confusing the regulator with the schrader valve ( a valve like tires have to test tire pressure). if you have no pressure (or fuel squirt out) when you press the 'tire valve' i would definately look into the fuel electronics and/or pump. and if that is the case, forget the noid light stuff - the problem is upstream.

if this last part sounds similar to your problems (i think jargon was messing us up), i would pull the FP relay. test the connections on it.

on the FP relay, IIRC:
pink/blk is the output to the pump.
tan/lt grn should be ground from the puter (use a DMM to test it)
orange/lt blue is power feed (from fusible link at starter solenoid).
red/blk is from inertia switch.

also, this diagram (courtesty of TMoss) might help if it is an electrical problem with the fuel system. the top of the diagram has fuel system on it, and the relay is on the top left.
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif
good luck.
 
Update nothing new....

We cant seem to get much help here...Finally found a guy to loan us his fuel pressure gauge, will have to get a ride tomorrow to go pick it up. This is getting to be really stressful :(

Got the mustang towed here to our apartment today... So sad looking at her just sit there :nonono:

Anyway, When we go to the parts store we are going to pick up a new selinoid (thanks for the advice Hissin) and will get a new regulator too, we will go pick up the fuel pressure gauge and bring that home. I can't believe they wanted $40 for the gauge at the parts store, geez. Took us so long to find one to borrow. We will replace the selinoid first, then we will check the fuel pressure and I can post those results on here to see what you guys think, before we jump into replacing the fuel regulator or any other repairs, like the relay.

So far we are still thinking this is a fuel problem, cycling the key a couple days ago as someone had suggested did not work. Of course we cant try it now cause the battery is unplugged to keep her from running (selinoid problem) :mad: So until we get this gauge we are stuck. Oh and we are fairly sure the pump is still good, held a stethascope to it and it is def working. Can hear it come on when we tried to crank the car. Like we said before we didnt see any fuel in the vacuum line, which confused us, because we thought for sure that it was the regulator and this would have proved it, I understand that would be a symptom of a bad regulator, but nothing :mad:

I'll keep you all posted. Hope this selenoid is easy to change :shrug: anyone have any tips? We don't really have the know how on replacing these parts. We are wingin it here....

Thanks again for all your help,
Mustanglover71
 
solenoid is very easy to do. swap the terminals (make sure to only hook up the starter cable to one side - nothing else on that lug). might want to disconnect the battery cable (pos atleast) at the battery, in case you accidentally touch a hot wire to metal.

good luck.
 
Update and questions?

OK here is our pitiful update, lol

Couldnt get the darn fuel pressure gauge on because we didnt have the right connector to fit the valve, we had about 5 minutes to utilize the help we had so we did a couple things. Banged on the solenoid, got that back in place so we could hook up the battery again. It worked, it came unstuck:)

Decided to use our help to listen again to engine while we crank, we noticed when key was in the ON position, we were hearing fuel in a rushing fashion at the regulator, as in it was noticably loud, like a waterfall. We think it is just rushing back to the tank. Thats is exactly what it sounds like.

Rechecked Schrader valve, seems to be plenty of fuel coming out. Took off the vacuum line to the manifold and our help sucked on the vacuum line (LOL, good helper, huh?), said he could taste vapors in the vacuum line.

Ok guys, help us out, I know you can do it!!!! Do you think it is this regualtor as we had suspected? Or is this not enough to go on? :shrug:

Thanks for your advice:)
All help appreciated:)
Mustangirl71
 
This has already been referred to, but for sake of clairty, I will post it.

Start the test path at step #3 and work your way down. I'm sure you will find the problem if you follow the path.

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Coil
B.) TFI module
C.) PIP sensor in distributor
D.) ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
E.) Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
F.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
G.) Computer

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.
Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t ,then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to ground. See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html for a description of the test connector. If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In pinch you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have.

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while pump is running.

Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.

A.) A Noid light available from Autozone, is one way to test the injector wiring.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.

a.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
b.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
c.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.


4.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.

A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO
 
Wanted to add...

Hi guys, I havnt heard anything from you since I posted last night...

Jrich, thanks for the reposting, I had printed that NO START guide several days ago, and we have been going through the list and performing those suggested tests, providing we have had the access to the tools to perform them. We have no other car, and not many people around willing to help so our access is limited, but we are doing our best.

Did you all go away for memorial weekend? :)

Anyway, I wanted to add a significant clue, that I left out last night...

We noticed that when we turned the key to the on position on the stang last night, we could hear the fuel pump come on, but it didnt cut off like it normally does after a few seconds, it just kept running... Then we heard that "Rushing fuel" sound near the rail. It just kept going until we turned the key to off.

This was something we didnt notice before, and I have only found one place on line today that said:

"The fuel pump will engage, and then cut off when the outflow of fuel is pressurized. If it doesnt cut off, the fuel was not pressurized, its a bad regulator or the pump." Does that make sense?

So what do you think guys? We bought a new regulator today, so we will replace that this weekend anyway, looks like it is going to be a pain though, we have to take the intake to get to the bolts. GEEEZ. We are starting it tomorrow.

I just wanted to add the fuel pump thing, incase you guys have heard of such a thing before and what it could mean?

I am hoping it IS the regulator, so this car will run after we get it in there:)

I am so excited that we may have this thing up and running soon:)
 
Do the simple stuff first...

"In pinch you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have."