Hi all- ‘86 Engine build

[slimsterr]

Hi I am new here, I have an 86 convertible gt. it's a dog when it comes to get up and go. so I was thinking of doing a nice engine build on it. starting with a dart block the biger bore cant remember if it's the 4.135 or somthing. that way I can use the 337 stroker crank and biger pistons so it comes out the the 347 stroker with out the long throw of the rods. also thinking of trick flow heads. now the reason for being here is I have no idea about fuel injection or injectors ect. I am all right with putting a carburetor motor build together but this is new territory to me. I called the shop that I will have do the build BRT performance. bill did my 496 strocker for my 1967 442. He asked what i was looking at doing and what kind of HP i was looking to get out of it. well i wouldn't mind maybe going with a pro charger or somthing that didn't cost as much. since I wont be running a lot of boost any way. sorry for the long intro and if I got any of the info wrong. I guess I am looking for some good ideas and direction.

thank you Jim mcc

 

[mikestang63]

what's your budget
whats the use for the car- DD, street strip,
Know you will need to upgrade the drivetrain, cooling, brakes, etc. to handle the added power

 

[slimsterr]

just for fun on the street show up a few Dodgers and my cousins Camaro. I have around 24k but that's got to go to the motor and trany and hope have a little left over for a paint job.

 

[slimsterr]

here's a picture of my 86

 

[slimsterr]

what's your budget
whats the use for the car- DD, street strip,
Know you will need to upgrade the drivetrain, cooling, brakes, etc. to handle the added power

 

[slimsterr]

yes going to do the breaks over this summer work a little o.t and get it done. as fare as cooling will go with an aluminium radiator. all ready did frame connectors and 3:73 rear gears last year. will get a tremteck 5 speed or might talk with the guys that built the 200r4 for my olds 442.

 

[96pushrod]

yes going to do the breaks over this summer work a little o.t and get it done. as fare as cooling will go with an aluminium radiator. all ready did frame connectors and 3:73 rear gears last year. will get a tremteck 5 speed or might talk with the guys that built the 200r4 for my olds 442.

Funny, I just sold a guy in Denmark a 200-4R out of a 89 hearse we gutted. I didn’t realize they were so desirable, but I guess they can be built to handle some decent power.

If you have $24k to blow you should be able to build something pretty stout.

 

[slimsterr]

yes the olds is making 638 hp and 645 torque and the 200r4 is holding up so fare but I dont race it so hopefully it will hold together.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

You're gonna have to forgive me in advance. But with the one new guy only having 500.00 to fix his car, and wanting to do an engine swap, and the other guy having supposedly 15k to spend, but refusing to heed a single piece of advice he was offered....
I'm a little skeptical.

So then...

While there are plenty of guys here that know all about the factory equipped fuel injection, rarely will it be adequate after you start throwing an aftermarket engine build together. And once a forced induction power adder enters the picture, it isn't up to the task.

That said, you have to decide whether or not the engine is going to have a power adder, and make that choice first I'd imagine.
Everything else you buy for the engine will revolve around that including the fuel delivery system, and the ECU that'll manage it.

I don't know where you got your initial info from regarding using a maxed out bore, and a smaller stroke crank to yield a 347 displacement, but I'd think that a 347, done the way it usually is done, ( 4.030 bore/3.4" stroke instead of a 4.125 bore/3.25 stroke) will yield more torque, and not be a block killer should something fail. Once the engine is bored 4.125, a part failure that damages the cylinder wall finish forces you to sleeve the cylinder to save the engine.
But again, whichever way you go, the one version will make decidedly more compression than the other will. The long stroke engine with the same flattop piston design as the shorter stroke version will have a higher CR when using the same head.

All of which will be very important when/if you decide to force air into the engine.

You'll have to know if you intend to use a Trickflow head. The offset valve angle in that head will affect your piston choices.

If you have 20k plus to build all of this, that should do...but at the same time I'm wondering why anybody puts a race engine in a vert. A Convertible is the worst platform for any drag, or road race platform.
That car you pictured is obviously dead stock, right down to the 10 hole wheels...why are you just now deciding to dump money in it? Did you just buy it?
With 20 k to spend, there are so many cars out there that have twice that or more invested in them that can be bought for less than you'll ever be able to build it for.
I always wonder why a person would even start down the path. ( dropping a wad of money all at once on a build) It's a very different thing if the car just gradually evolves into a 20 k investment over multiple years, but if you have a whole bunch of money just laying around on your coffee table, the "best deal ever" is just a few clicks away.
And bought for 20 k or less.........Most of the time, way less.

If somebody walked up to me with 20 k and offered to buy the monster, I'd probably even let him go.....And that lucky person would have a car that couldn't be built for twice that.
* And.....its "Tremec"
And " brakes"

 

[slimsterr]

yes you dont have to tell me about putting more into a car than you can get out of it. I have a 1967 olds 442 that I cant tell you how much I have into it that i will never get back but it is one hell of a nice looking and running car. and yes the car was bought last summer always wanted a convertible and found this one. the car has never been touched a few friends say i should just leave it alone since there isnt tomany unmolested cars left. but it is such a dog I need to do somthing to get it some giddy up.

 

[slimsterr]

lol yes sorry about the speeling

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

yes you dont have to tell me about putting more into a car than you can get out of it. I have a 1967 olds 442 that I cant tell you how much I have into it that i will never get back but it is one hell of a nice looking and running car. and yes the car was bought last summer always wanted a convertible and found this one. the car has never been touched a few friends say i should just leave it alone since there isnt tomany unmolested cars left. but it is such a dog I need to do somthing to get it some giddy up.

Some "giddy up" does not require a dart block.

 

[slimsterr]

I was under the impression that anything over 450 hp a stock block would fail. would hate to spend hard earned cash and have a factory bloke ruin my day.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I was under the impression that anything over 450 hp a stock block would fail. would hate to spend hard earned cash and have a factory bloke ruin my day.

I guess it's all gonna come down to what you consider giddy up.
To me 400 ft lbs of torque with the proper gearing is more than enough to be considered fast and fun for the street. A stock block will easily stroke to 347, and make 400/400 all day breathing normal atmosphere with no risk of failure.

These engines fail when they are pushed too hard. Whether its from the compressive loads that come as a result of trying to grunt out too much power, or trying to hold onto 8 aluminum slugs trying to spin past 7000 rpm, the crank will eventually try to blow out the bottom of the engine once pushed past the 500 hp mark.

The engine will not tolerate being rattled either at any power level, the webbing that supports the cam just cracks, and the bottom separates from the top.

Now, set a realistic power goal under 450, find a way to put a 6 speed manual, or (my choice) a 5R55 behind that engine with a 3.55 gear, and you'll have a fast fun driver.

 

[slimsterr]

would be a hell of a lot cheaper to do that couple grand for heads maybe another grand for some port work. I think a strocker kit is what 2,500 hundred and a custom cam and lifters should only run you 500 or 600 hundred bucks plus a manifold shouldn't be more than 250 or three hundred. pluse a dig msd around 600. would love a 6 speed in it I know they can be done shorter drive shaft and I think move the crossmember back no biggie. and make it all look stoke. would be the way to go.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

would be a hell of a lot cheaper to do that couple grand for heads maybe another grand for some port work. I think a strocker kit is what 2,500 hundred and a custom cam and lifters should only run you 500 or 600 hundred bucks plus a manifold shouldn't be more than 250 or three hundred. pluse a dig msd around 600. would love a 6 speed in it I know they can be done shorter drive shaft and I think move the crossmember back no biggie. and make it all look stoke. would be the way to go.

You do know there is an edit button don't you? Just the ticket for adding punctuation and fixing misspelled words.

Again,...your numbers are skewed. This is how I'd do it:
You gotta find a late model block.
Machine work is extra, ( but you gotta have it regardless of which way you go)
The transmission is YTD , but modifying that tunnel to accept either a 6 speed or a 5R55 has got to happen.
If you buy a 5 R55, I got no idea how you'll control it, what will have to be done to adapt it, and who knows how much a freakin' converter would cost.


1000 for a set of offshore CNC ported heads.
1000 for a forged piston/forged I beam/ cast crank stroker kit.
750-800 for a cam kit and lifters/ timing chain/pushrods/new spider
700-900 for a self learning throttle body FI system.
400-500 for a carb style intake manifold.
Stock ignition.

This just goes to address your list of items. Somebody who knows what to look for, can always find a better way that doesn't involve throwing stupid money at it.

 

[General karthief]

I hate to see a good unmolested vert get all done up race car style.
I would side with buying something that has a clapped out running gear, you're gonna be swapping the running gear and brakes anyway, why take a perfectly good vert and over build it.
all it needs is a some simple engine mods and a good gear and have some fun.
Keep in mind a good vert is getting hard to find.
but it is your car.

 

[96pushrod]

You're gonna have to forgive me in advance. But with the one new guy only having 500.00 to fix his car, and wanting to do an engine swap, and the other guy having supposedly 15k to spend, but refusing to heed a single piece of advice he was offered....
I'm a little skeptical.

So then...

While there are plenty of guys here that know all about the factory equipped fuel injection, rarely will it be adequate after you start throwing an aftermarket engine build together. And once a forced induction power adder enters the picture, it isn't up to the task.

That said, you have to decide whether or not the engine is going to have a power adder, and make that choice first I'd imagine.
Everything else you buy for the engine will revolve around that including the fuel delivery system, and the ECU that'll manage it.

I don't know where you got your initial info from regarding using a maxed out bore, and a smaller stroke crank to yield a 347 displacement, but I'd think that a 347, done the way it usually is done, ( 4.030 bore/3.4" stroke instead of a 4.125 bore/3.25 stroke) will yield more torque, and not be a block killer should something fail. Once the engine is bored 4.125, a part failure that damages the cylinder wall finish forces you to sleeve the cylinder to save the engine.
But again, whichever way you go, the one version will make decidedly more compression than the other will. The long stroke engine with the same flattop piston design as the shorter stroke version will have a higher CR when using the same head.

All of which will be very important when/if you decide to force air into the engine.

You'll have to know if you intend to use a Trickflow head. The offset valve angle in that head will affect your piston choices.

If you have 20k plus to build all of this, that should do...but at the same time I'm wondering why anybody puts a race engine in a vert. A Convertible is the worst platform for any drag, or road race platform.
That car you pictured is obviously dead stock, right down to the 10 hole wheels...why are you just now deciding to dump money in it? Did you just buy it?
With 20 k to spend, there are so many cars out there that have twice that or more invested in them that can be bought for less than you'll ever be able to build it for.
I always wonder why a person would even start down the path. ( dropping a wad of money all at once on a build) It's a very different thing if the car just gradually evolves into a 20 k investment over multiple years, but if you have a whole bunch of money just laying around on your coffee table, the "best deal ever" is just a few clicks away.
And bought for 20 k or less.........Most of the time, way less.

If somebody walked up to me with 20 k and offered to buy the monster, I'd probably even let him go.....And that lucky person would have a car that couldn't be built for twice that.
* And.....its "Tremec"
And " brakes"

For the record, a dart block can be comfortably be taken well beyond 4.125 - like 4.200 territory.

I don’t see anything wrong with spending money for a high dollar build. If you’ve got the money and time, why not go for it? My last build I saved up for, and bought a whole bunch of stuff all at once. The reality is; I could’ve had almost any car for what I spent to build mine, but I did it all myself, didn’t cut corners and put exactly what I wanted in it.

And at the end of the day it’s probably not worth half what I put in it. Oh well, at least I like it.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I hate to see a good unmolested vert get all done up race car style.
I would side with buying something that has a clapped out running gear, you're gonna be swapping the running gear and brakes anyway, why take a perfectly good vert and over build it.
all it needs is a some simple engine mods and a good gear and have some fun.
Keep in mind a good vert is getting hard to find.
but it is your car.

It's a convertible...they're getting hard to find because they weren't that popular.........ever.

* The weather forecast says it's gonna be 95 and sunny....." Here, let me put the top down...nothing adds an level of additional of motoring pleasure like adding an extra 10 or so degrees from the bath tub effect, and putting yourself in the path of direct sun exposure quite like a convertible"

 

[General karthief]

I hear ya on the sunburn but I drove mine around with the top down at night. Went up the right coast a few years ago with the top down, I've had convertibles most my life.