how do i tell if i have a cracked head?

86GT5speed · Sep 29, 2007

Daggar said:
Replace the heads.

That is all.

no place to find e6 heads right now, and prolly cost alot new if available.

ok i just went to the store for smokes and i was sitting in the parking lot, suddenly i noticed my idle jumped up to 1200rpm, couldnt get it to go down. would a lower intake leak cause this?
my heads should be fine .... i didnt damage them. the passenger side should be fine atleast,, the drivers side is the one im worried about, but i dont know why if it were cracked that my idle would do this. i drove home asap and it was still doing when i got in the driveway and parked it
man i dont wanna drive my pos firebird dont trust that car it leaks everyplace.
i dont think im skilled enough to rebuild my motor and lose the flat tops so i can put differant heads on it. for the price of trickflows i can have new motor

86GT5speed · Sep 29, 2007

1.8kmint said:

pics of what the heads???, theres nothing to see
just the ****ty port job. but this wont tell anyone anything as to wether or not its cracked internally in like a coolant passage way. but here u go

1.8kmint · Sep 29, 2007

did the car actually feel like it was running at 1200 rpms or did the gauge just jump?

a helpful link if you do end up needing to replace the heads.

(need adobe to read)

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techarticles/headcamintakeswap.pdf

86GT5speed · Sep 29, 2007

1.8kmint said:
did the car actually feel like it was running at 1200 rpms or did the gauge just jump?

a helpful link if you do end up needing to replace the heads.

(need adobe to read)

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techarticles/headcamintakeswap.pdf

it felt like it, also to note both my coil and dizzy whent out after all the head stuff. seems odd

1.8kmint · Sep 29, 2007

Hmm im not sure if it can be linked to just one specific problem. The origional drivers side oil leak sounds like the gaskets were not sealed correctly or heads were not torqued right. (as stated above) Have any pics of the steam coming off or place you suspect the leak is coming from? I know its most likely a difficult angle to take shots from but any pics of the actual leak would help. If its a head problem Tmoss can prolly help you when he gets word of this thread, the coil and dizzy problem may have been from not installing them right after the head cleaning and stuff and the timing could be off which could lead to a lot of problems.

86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

1.8kmint said:
Hmm im not sure if it can be linked to just one specific problem. The origional drivers side oil leak sounds like the gaskets were not sealed correctly or heads were not torqued right. (as stated above) Have any pics of the steam coming off or place you suspect the leak is coming from? I know its most likely a difficult angle to take shots from but any pics of the actual leak would help. If its a head problem Tmoss can prolly help you when he gets word of this thread, the coil and dizzy problem may have been from not installing them right after the head cleaning and stuff and the timing could be off which could lead to a lot of problems.

i can get pics of the steam right now and the oil spots around the head blots. my timing was nutts on, i marked the rotor position as well as the base of the dizzy before removing the, however since putting a new one in i moved the timing a lil to get it to run smoother

86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

also suspect a vacum leak, i think the egr is supposed to go to a line to the intake from a pic i saw but its hooked to a line running to the stuff near the passengerside firewall

86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

ok heres ome pics, not great but if u can see steam at night in the dark it aint good, both sides had steam this time. the idle was up high then went down after i reved it this time???
looks like the valve cover might be leaking oil on the heads down too the bolts, new gaskets too
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86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

well i guess im going to pull the lower intake today and see what i find
be nice if it was the lower. im dirt poor right now so i dont know what to do but i need my car running

skunk21 · Sep 30, 2007

man you have leaks everywhere and if the pics of rear of your car are white smoke you are burning coolant and bubbles in your radiator, bad headgasket seal. my guess again like I wrote before not tourqing correctally, don't have good clean sealing surface, and MAKE SURE THE HEADS ARE FLAT AND GOOD! also be careful when placing the heads into the block, it's easy to nick or mark up the head gasket making it junk.

aslo porting heads while in the car never a god idea . hopefully you didn't take out to much making the heads useless or carved into a coolant passage?

but again that pic of the rear of car if it's burning coolant and you have bubbles in tha radiator/overflow tank= bad gasket= warped head,not tourqed or you knicked or wrecked the new gasket.

you need to do more than take of the intake manifiold.

I also wanted to add that while you may have had the heads checked again ask how they did it for your own well bieng. if they used a feeler gauges on a surface plate, yes they may not be able to get through the sides but you still could not be totally flat. I'm still leaning towards you not sealing due to heads not being flat.

Daggar · Sep 30, 2007

greensvt21 said:
aslo porting heads while in the car never a god idea . hopefully you didn't take out to much making the heads useless or carved into a coolant passage?

That's what I'm starting to think.

86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

Daggar said:
That's what I'm starting to think.

i didnt take out much at all, was just trying to smooth out the rough cast, anyway im not bubling in the radiator at all, just ran it 30 mins, no bubbles, but i have steam/smoke out bot sides real bad now!!
if my car never over heats but does this whats that mean???
pics
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86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

it started as just one side 3 days or so ago, ive driven less than 20 miles and now its both sides as u can tell

Daggar · Sep 30, 2007

Ok.... this whole thread has become very convoluted and once again, it's very difficult to diagnose your specific problem without having been there to see the installation and without being able to personally examine your pieces and parts first hand.

That said, I recommend the following:

Remove your components. Heads and intake.
Have the head condition inspected by a reputable machine shop.
If they check out, reinstall them with a FRESH set of Felpro gaskets and follow the proper torque sequence.
USE NEW HEAD BOLTS! USE A TORQUE WRENCH! USE THREAD SEALER ON THE LONG BOLTS AND THREAD LOCK (RED) ON THE SHORT ONES. Torque to Yield.
Install a NEW lower intake gasket (I like the ones from FMS with the blue ridge on one side). Use Permatex gasket maker around ALL the ports (intake, exhaust, water).

Be sure to seal the small slits between the bottom of the head surface and the block deck. There's usually a small space that you can fit a piece of paper into between the head and the block (in the area where the rear gasket intake gasket sits). Make sure that gets sealant.

Whether you use the front and rear seals is up to you but the end MUST be sealed with the gasket maker regarless. If you use cork gaskets then coat each side with the gasket maker. ALLOW THE SEALANT TO GET TACKY BEFORE INSTALLATION OF THE LOWER INTAKE. Other wise you'll likely just squish out all the sealant while you perform the torque sequence.

USE THE CORRECT TORQUE SEQUENCE ON THE LOWER INTAKE. Allow it to dry for a few hours (4 or 5 at 70* or better) then start the motor and let it get warmed all the way through (dont give it any gas, just let it idle). Shut it down, let it cool then retorque the lower intake following the same torque sequence (yes there are some things you may have to remove for the retorque).

Once all back together then drive it. Be nice to it for a heat cycle or two.

Have I forgotten anything guys?

86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

ok i see a few things i didnt do, sealant and lock tite on the head bolts, also didnt retorque the lower. didnt use new head bolt since i was told not to by a reputable machine shop. he said he re uses all the time on 302s.
my intake kit came with blue silicon backs and fronts, felpro stuff, headgaskets were also felpro, installed dry as i was told to do as well.
only put a small amount of black rtv around all the coolant ports of the intake on both sides. maybe that wasnt enough?
i followed the torque sequence on everything str8 out of the haynes, and torque to yeild

skunk21 · Sep 30, 2007

Daggar your on the money. 86gt5speed you are burning coolant, hence the white smoke. get the heads redone+ decked! new head bolts(with amount of times you have been tourqing on them) and follow daggars advice. yes the head gaskets go on dry, no sealant needed or should be used on a head gasket.

you are spinning your wheels and going no where doing what you are doing right now. you are not sealing and coolant is getting into the cylinders and burning up!!you need to regroup and really start to think and look at things. that is alot of white smoke the heads are not sealing! get them looked at.

really no more any of us can do for you at this point, we pretty much covered all the bases and pointed you into a direction. It's now up to you. good luck.

Daggar · Sep 30, 2007

Read through this article:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0609_rhs_head_install/index.html

There are things in it that don't apply to you (pushrods etc) but concentrate on the portions that talk about head and intake install. I use a tube of thread sealer where the article talks about using thread tape. I prefer the sealer but to each his own.

86GT5speed · Sep 30, 2007

right right, well im pulling it apart here soon. theres a possiblitiy its the intake still(well in my mind) maybe i will see an obvious leak when i remove it. right now i cant do much but take it apart and go from there. the heads were checked with a feeler gauge only, since you asked earlier.

1.8kmint · Sep 30, 2007

As i said before it looks like you have multiple problems. Daggar and Greensvt are both right the white smoke out the back is definently coolant burning. Which would lead me to think head gasket. I'm glad you got better pics cuz i wasnt sure if the steam was coming off the engine or through the tail pipes. Don't be surprised if you have to pull everything off intake, and the heads and restart from square one. Follow the directions on that link i gave you. Make Sure you seal properly. I'm surprised you werent feeling a power loss with all those leaks.

how do i tell if i have a cracked head?

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