how does the fox 5.0 compare to the 99+ 4.6 ?

[JH96GT]

Im stuck between trying to find a 94-95 5.0 or maybe a 96-98 GT. I had a 95, and i kinda want something different, but im scared i'd regret the 96-98 from how people talk about them.

Screw'em. My 96 has been a great car. Just do a head swap and don't look back.

It's not expensive or hard to do. If you don't want to do that, change the intake and cams - it's not much different than the whole headswap. While both are restrictive, the intake is more of the culprit than the NPI heads.

My 96 is my DD and all I've done is CAI, intake swap, TKO 500 & JMS tune (was gonna build it until I got my Capri). Still get 25 mpg out of it........ It's no monster, but still fun and comfortable.

Go for it.

 

[millhouse]

I beleive the Teksid block in the 93-98 Mark 8's and 96-98 Cobras is the strongest 4.6L block. It will handle up to 1000HP.


That would be the block to base a 4.6L stroker motor on.



The regular iron GT block can handle up to 500HP. The internals can't though and must be upgraded

Nah, the gt blocks are capable of the higher h/p levels as well. The biggest advantage of the aluminum blocks I believe is the reduction of weight...and the ability to be sleeved to a larger dia.

 

[5spd GT]

Only if you bolt them onto a Non-PI car. Compression was the same with Non-PI and PI head cars. The compression bumped a little in '01 for 9.0:1 to 9.3:1.

If you bolt PI heads onto a NPI, the compression will go over 10.0:1.

With the 96-98 dish size of 10.5cc it is 10.4:1 actually. I did the PI Headswap, and got lots of information on it...I know

I was stating that the heads aren't the main reason for the power and swap difference. It is the intake and cams. Just a visual look at the intake and you see a huge difference at the ports.

2v Cam Specifications

Non-PI:
Intake .462" lift - 201 @.050"
Exhaust .462" lift - 208 @.050"
114 Intake Centerline
113 Exhaust Centerline

PI:
Intake .507" lift - 200 @.050"
Exhaust .534" lift - 210 @.050"
114 Intake Centerline
115 Exhaust Centerline


Nice cars by the way

 

[5spd GT]

Yes, the 'gt' blocks are capable of 700-800hp pretty easily. They are thick. I got an 02 SOHC block in my back yard right now...I wish I had some money to do something with it

Teksid blocks are referred to as the strongest, I recall reading one racer was pushing near 1700 hp in it...

I just think it is funny how everyone downs the 2v, when it is better than the 5.0L

I did the PI Headswap, and on my first tank I got 24.9 mpg, mixed driving. I was confused...lol. And no I wasn't that easy on it...

 

[5spd GT]

Engine for engine, the 5.0 is very easily modded and will cost less to do so. The big thing with the 4.6's, they respond to power adders very well. The big downfall, is the crappy internals. The major positive, once you get good internals, the iron block can withstand lots of HP, way past what a stock 5.0 block can handle.

They have weaker rods/pistons just like the 5.0L does.

If you want all forged/arp hardware like the 03/04 Cobra's, you'll get the price tag as well.

 

[04sleeper]

You know David, actually you can bolt on 4V heads on an iron GT block as well.

 

[04sleeper]

They have weaker rods/pistons just like the 5.0L does.

If you want all forged/arp hardware like the 03/04 Cobra's, you'll get the price tag as well.

You can buy a stock 03-04 Cobra long block for $3700 from Ford. (Oil pan to valve covers)

 

[5spd GT]

And what I meant earlier when i said Mustang owners had to shell out an additional $10k in the 90's to be competitive with the GM cars was that if you wanted a from the factory Mustang that could at least come somewhat close to keeping up with the Camaros/Firechickens you had to spend an additional $10k and get a Cobra, and you would still be sucking tail pipe. And just to be clear when I say additional I mean that a Cobra cost about $10k more than what a Mustang GT or Camaro Z28 did. Yes the Mustang outsold the F-bodies, luckily for Ford performance does not necessarily equal high sales. I for one was embarassed that Ford stood back and did nothing to make the Mustang gain ground in the performance non-war of the 90's. I hope history does not repeat itself!

Put 10k on the GT or Cobra, and demolish the 'competition'...

Ford didn't have to prove anything, their sales books did all the proving...

 

[5spd GT]

You know David, actually you can bolt on 4V heads on an iron GT block as well.

Yep, you can

 

[04sleeper]

Here's a tasty tidbit..... From another forum.

Stock motor + 33 PSI = 999.7 RWHP
I just got back from the dyno. The car made 999.7 RWHP thru the nonlock converter on 33 PSI. Those are uncorrected numbers, the corrected numbers were 994 HP. We had a little issue with the MAF dropping in voltage and leaning us out otherwise we could have kept turning it up. Once we hit about 28 PSI the turbo stated picking up 55-60 HP per 2 pounds. I think its possible to make another 50 HP at 35 PSI. I forgot the dyno sheet but will get it tomorrow. I also weighted the car and it's 3380 with 1/2 tank of gas. Should be close to those 8's now.

__________________
Mark Larson
Turbo 03' Cobra
Stock Motor - 999 RWHP
76mm Turbo 9.59@146
88mm Turbo - coming soon.

 

[04sleeper]

Oh yeah, that was on one of those $3700 stock replacement engines.

 

[FastDriver]

Yes, the 'gt' blocks are capable of 700-800hp pretty easily. They are thick. I got an 02 SOHC block in my back yard right now...I wish I had some money to do something with it

Teksid blocks are referred to as the strongest, I recall reading one racer was pushing near 1700 hp in it...

I just think it is funny how everyone downs the 2v, when it is better than the 5.0L

I did the PI Headswap, and on my first tank I got 24.9 mpg, mixed driving. I was confused...lol. And no I wasn't that easy on it...

It's probably because the aftermarket is better for the 5.0. Look at factory stock. 5.0s are still out there competing with the "better" 2Vs... In fact, I think everyone with 2Vs has given up. 99+ start off with more power ~30-40 rwhp, but also more weight. You can make a more power from an n/a 5.0 build-up cheaper than you can from a 4.6 2v non-PI build-up for the money for sure, and I think a even a PI headed car when you start shooting for 300+ rwhp. Stroker 5.0s will make 400+rwhp without much fanfare. I couldn't even begin to address making that kind of power with a 2V, though I admit I know much more about 5.0 combos. The limiting factor on a 5.0 to me is the block strength, which you can push the limits of before adding forced induction. It should would be nice to have the 700-800 hp potential without buying a ~$2k block (after machining). The other nice thing about 4.6s is the abililty to rev them. After researching what it takes to make a pushrods motor build rpms, I've begun to appreciate the relative ease with which you can make the OHC motors do the same thing.

People down the 2V (especially the 96-98) because they are just anemic. And to really make them faster, you are pretty much limited to forced induction. Man, a friend of mine recently asked me what the performance potential was for the 4.6s, and I told him that I know that a 4v swap is difficult and pricey, but a lot of people go forced induction. So, he wanted to know about how much he could find a supercharger for one. So I started looking.... Where the hell are these things.. Seems like every company out there has 2 kits for a fox, one for 99+, and one for 05+, but they don't list any as 96+ or 96-98. What gives? Is a 99+ kit going to work on a 98-?

Chris

 

[ill advised]

Kenne Bell has one.

 

[5spd GT]

It's probably because the aftermarket is better for the 5.0. Look at factory stock. 5.0s are still out there competing with the "better" 2Vs... In fact, I think everyone with 2Vs has given up. 99+ start off with more power ~30-40 rwhp, but also more weight. You can make a more power from an n/a 5.0 build-up cheaper than you can from a 4.6 2v non-PI build-up for the money for sure, and I think a even a PI headed car when you start shooting for 300+ rwhp. Stroker 5.0s will make 400+rwhp without much fanfare. I couldn't even begin to address making that kind of power with a 2V, though I admit I know much more about 5.0 combos. The limiting factor on a 5.0 to me is the block strength, which you can push the limits of before adding forced induction. It should would be nice to have the 700-800 hp potential without buying a ~$2k block (after machining). The other nice thing about 4.6s is the abililty to rev them. After researching what it takes to make a pushrods motor build rpms, I've begun to appreciate the relative ease with which you can make the OHC motors do the same thing.

Yep, the aftermarket is more developed, it has a couple decades on it's competition, so I imagine it has the advantage.

You can get 300rwhp out of a 4.6L (with good parts) around the $2,000 dollar range. Cams/Springs, Longtubes/H-pipe/Catback, MAF and TB. No need to replace heads or intake on 99-04 cars. Doing all this with .4L less than the 5.0L.

It is like a 302 beating a 331 (.4L less).

A 5.0 is a 2V engine as well

The 5.0L does have a more developed arsenal of aftermarket parts and more cubes on it's side, it has to have the advantage

The 4.6L is more refined and smooth/docile in my opinion.

People down the 2V (especially the 96-98) because they are just anemic. And to really make them faster, you are pretty much limited to forced induction. Man, a friend of mine recently asked me what the performance potential was for the 4.6s, and I told him that I know that a 4v swap is difficult and pricey, but a lot of people go forced induction. So, he wanted to know about how much he could find a supercharger for one. So I started looking.... Where the hell are these things.. Seems like every company out there has 2 kits for a fox, one for 99+, and one for 05+, but they don't list any as 96+ or 96-98. What gives? Is a 99+ kit going to work on a 98-?

Chris

I did my PI Heads, PI cams, PI Intake for under $400, with OEM gaskets and hardware. Not a bad deal for 40 more rwhp and drives just like an OEM car would. That brings the compression a bit high to consider using a supercharger in my opinion. An intake and cam swap alone brings about 25-30 rwhp. So some leave the heads off the swap list to go with a supercharger in the future.

Vortech, KB, and Paxton all offer superchargers if I'm not mistaken for the 96-98's...

Either way, people complain about the 96-98 and how horrible they are. You unleash the power with a stock intake and stock cam swap and are making what the 99+ are making.

 

[25thmustang]

2V blocks can bolt on 4V heads, is this a 100% bolt on affair? Also the Teksid blocks are the 96-98 Cobra block? I am going 4.6 in my car (yes going from 5.0 to 4.6) and want to build a motor before I drop it in. I'm thinking all motor, some healthy cams, (4V obviousely) gear it to run hard NA, then slap a turbo on it later down the road...

 

[Mustang5L5]

99+ start off with more power ~30-40 rwhp, but also more weight.

They aren't as heavy as you would think. Physically they are bigger in size, but they aren't all that much heavier, maybe 3300-3400 pounds. A lot of body panels on the 99+ are composite. The hood, trunk, sailpanels, scoops, spoilers...and they are very light. I can carry my trunk/spoiler with one hand. Try to do the same with a hatchback off a fox.


It's the Cobras that are the pigs at 3800 pounds.

 

[5spd GT]

Friends 2000 5spd GT with 17x9 chrome wheels/leather/mach 460/loaded weighed in at 3,337 lbs. Full weight.

My Lx weighed 3160 lbs with aluminum heads/subframes.

 

[Mustang5L5]

It's like driving around with a fat girlfriend all the time

 

[5spd GT]

2V blocks can bolt on 4V heads, is this a 100% bolt on affair? Also the Teksid blocks are the 96-98 Cobra block? I am going 4.6 in my car (yes going from 5.0 to 4.6) and want to build a motor before I drop it in. I'm thinking all motor, some healthy cams, (4V obviousely) gear it to run hard NA, then slap a turbo on it later down the road...

Yeah the 96-98 Cobra's are referred to as the Teksid block, which is a bit better than the other blocks...

I personally would just swap a complete 4.6 DOHC (complete) in there, and not mess with a 'headswap', because you would need a new timing cover, cobra chains, cams, IRMC (intake runner manifold control valves), etc...lots of little things.

I haven't looked much into it, because it really isn't worth the trouble in my opinion.

Plus the Cobra blocks (besides the 03/04) are aluminum, so you would save in that way instead of trying to retrofit the 4v heads on a SOHC block.

I would look into getting the 03/04 Cobra engine that Kevin mentioned (04 sleeper)...

 

[nmcgrawj]

Can the DOHC swap with SOHC cars be looked at like 351w swaps in place of a 302? Or is it more like the 351w swap is like a 5.4 SOHC swapped with a 4.6 SOHC?