How fast with stock cam and a 1.7 RR?

[Schlodes]

I was just wondering how fast some cars have gone naturally aspirated on the stock cam and a 1.7 / 1.72 rocker.

Tonight I picked up a Pro M bullet and some 24 lbers, stuffs like new, for $425 CDN [about $305 US], have my Performer upper and lower here, and am supposed to go in the morning, to look at a set of AFR 165s [pedestal style] a guy at a speedshop about 35 mins from here has.
I want to stay with the stock camshaft. I like the smooth idle, low end response, and even though my car flew through it, the emissions test are getting tougher around these parts with more roadside guys supposed to be out and about.

So I guess my engine setup will likely look like this:
stock short block,
AFR 165s,
1.7 RRs,
Performer intake [ports cleaned up some]
65mm T Body
75mm Pro M & 24 lb squirters
Equal length shorties & off road X pipe run open [at track - stock H on street]
MSD 6AL, and all the little stuff like underdrives, timing, and K&N etc etc etc..

Has anyone run into the 11s or faster normally aspirated with the stock camshaft and a 1.7 rocker with a built motor?

Oh yeah............... Did some suspenion work too last weekend...
Pro 3i Street/Race lower LCAs w/ jackers,
Kevin Slabys [baselinesuspensions.com] upper ctrl arms,
*Rick91GTs torque box supports* - I HIGHLY reccommend these BTW. What a nice bolt in, and has an extra support brace for the lower box that the Wild Ride ones didn't and Ricks kit is cheaper and stainkless steel. Even with my one track day last year on slicks my pass side lower box was starting to pull away.. Ricks kit is well worth the $$!!!

 

[10SecondHatch]

i suggest you just get a camshaft from trick flow or comp im runnin a tfs stage 1 cam and i like more mid to upper i now a guy with a 306 that runs 11s here at ennis and he is n/a all the way and 7.3s in the 1/8th

 

[Michael Yount]

The stock cam and 1.7's will work just fine - idle quality, low end torque and emissions should all be just fine. You can always go in later and change the cam if you feel the need to. And the AFR's will love the extra lift you get from the ratio change.

 

[25thmustang]

NMRA Factory Stock class cars have gone 11s on Drag Radials, with GT-40 heads, stock cams, and the rest of the bolt ons. These are race cars with built bottem ends, but still have gone 11s!

 

[Schlodes]

Thanks a bunch for the replies guys.

Well I bought the AFRs and have em here now.... I never thought i'd spend the money but working extra shifts and livng like a cheap tight arss for the winter adds up I also bought all my gaskets and ordered a set of Crane Energizer 1.7 RRs.

You know, I really wanted to get the Thumpers because it was a very affordable package and I had alot of faith in them heads and Mike is a very nice, helpful guy.. but with the 15 or so things I ordered Stateside, being my suspension and tons of other stuff for the car... EVERYTHING that came from the US was tore open, I got charged extra because MY side [customs] opened it... the one package I waited a month and a half before it finally came. My stuff from Summit took a month cause of Customs.. And UPS has started charging me a "brokerage fee" [fee for them driving across the ambassador bridge with my stuff ] and my upper control arms were valued at $ 262 USD.. UPS told me I owed him almost $245 [Ontario PST and GST based on CDN total, and brokerage fee] to get my stuff. I decided I would look real hard here in Canada for stuff first... So this Perf shop had the AFR 165s on the shelf, they were the pedestal ones like I wanted so I said to heck with it and bought em. And it actually works out about $150 LESS than if I were to order em Stateside.. Anyways..

Camshaft stuff............
Is an off the shelf cam [B or E 303, TFS Stg I, etc] really going to give me that more more HP than my stock cam with the 1.7RRs?I want to freshen the motor up probably in the winter, and I would give Ed C a call and talk to him about a custom grind and emissions, and good idle quality etc. But for now I dont wanna go into the bottom end at all.

So it will be:
stock short block,
AFR 165s,
Crane Energizer 1.7 RRs,
Performer intake [ports cleaned up some]
65mm T Body
75mm Pro M, FRPP 24 lb squirters, BBK adj. regulator & guage
Equal length shorties & off road X pipe
Poly engine, trans mounts, alum driveshaft.
MSD 6AL, and all the little stuff like underdrives, timing, and K&N etc etc etc..

With some tuning is the above capable of 270-280 RWHP in your guys' opinons? I figure iits close to around 220 RWHP or so based on the 13.1 and 102.7 trap speed.. that was through stock cats and no short belt and full interior.

Your opinions, ideas etc are greatly appreciated! Thanks again.

 

[Rick 91GT]

Steve I have a 2031 cam for sale, it makes as geat street cam and will pass emissions testing. It is made for the 1.7 rockers and has one of the nicest torque and HP curve we have seen. We made 307+RWHP on our stock 93 Cobra with this cam, and it made 427RWHP/467TQ with the A-trim, had 350ftlbs of tq at 3000rpm. Driveability is great and it sounds like it would be a perfect addition to your set-up...11's will be right around the corner.

Thanks for the feedback on the kit. We feel the kit is a great addition to any Mustang, hope to have a all new upper design out later this year.

 

[Michael Yount]

Steve - I responded to your email directly.

 

[noslow5_0]

10second your not refuring to ennis texas are you???

 

[Michael Yount]

Trying to learn a little here from the NMRA guys -- does factory stock require an original HO cam, or a cam that meets certain specs of the stock cam - like advertised duration, LSA, lift, etc.? In my SCCA days, many of us ran "stock" cams. While they qualified as stock based on advertised duration and peak lift, MANY people used custom cams with much more radical lobe profiles that significantly increased the area under the curve. Just curious which kind of "stock" HO cams folks are running 10's and 11's with.

 

[25thmustang]

It used to be stock, now they allow any cams with the certain stock dimensions. I think a couple companies make Factory Stock cams now. I dont run NMRA yet, and probably wont run until I build my car into Real Street, but I do follow the class and run in a very similar class (also called factory stock) with a group called the MHRA!

 

[Michael Yount]

Thanks Brian - seems like some cams are more stock than others, as in most forms of racing...

 

[NotQuik]

Friend of mine with stock heads, cam and gt 40 intake with 1.7's of course went 13.0@104 and some change on motor, he's fixing to do afr 165s but he's getting a cam at the same time though.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Just curious Schlodes, where did you buy and what did you pay for the AFR's?

 

[Schlodes]

I bought the AFRs [165s] from a place in Blenheim Ontario Called Westside Performance. I called the place about heads and just asked what he had in stock. He said he had Edelbrock Performers [$1774 CDN/pair], Windsor Junior Lites [$1470 CDN/pair], and the AFR 165 and 185s. The 165s were $1995 CDN/pair plus PST/GST. The guy told me over the phone that he couldn't believe how much better a head the AFRs were..

Then I bought all my gaskets, ARP heads bolts, Crane Energizer 1.7 RRs <-- all of which he gave me 15% off on for buying the heads there.

It was cheaper to buy the heads there at Westside than ordering them from the States and then paying all the crap we Canadians pay for importing this type of stuff. Ordering stateside would have been about $150 more by the time UPS man collected his brokerage, PST/GST plus shipping charges etc etc...

I knew I would be buying the AFRs over the other heads before I got there because I have looked at the AFR website and like the low lift flow #s on the AFRs. Plus all the stuff I have heard on here and in person from people I have talked to... Also... They had the pedestal mount heads in stock which were the ones I wanted, and the rest is history

I still wish I could get some input from some guys who have cracked the high 11s / low 12s with motor work, but just the stock camshaft still... I can't believe I am the first guy to try this [I know I ain't]

 

[Rick 91GT]

I went a best of 12.87 with a 169,000 mile stock motor, stock T-5, Centerforce DF clutch. They only parts I had were 1.7 rockers, K&N filter, custom ram air, underdrives, MAC 1.625" long tubes, MAC 2.5" offroad H, 2.5" MAC cat back.

I had Eibach Drag Launch kit, 70/30's, 50/50's, subframes, SSM lowers, stock uppers (boxed), no front sway bar, 3:73 gears, 4" cowl hood, I ran 26" x 10.5" M&H Racemasters (basically a MT ET STREET)

Car would get everything it had to the ground, 1.600 60fts were norm, just barely lifting the drivers side front tire, 104mph. A lot is in the driver, I feel I can row a manual with the best of them and I knew the car very well.....

As far as F/S cams go here is what the rules say... www.nmraracing.com

1.18a) CAMSHAFT: Stock lobe 5.0 HO or 4.6L camshaft required. Specified duration, lift, and lobe separation required.

Rules in section 1.18a) specify a stock lobe 5.0 HO camshaft required. The specified lobe duration and lobe separation angles are stated to give the racer/engine builder a maximum duration at specific lobe lifts and a maximum and minimum lobe separation angle for a stock 5.0 HO lobe. The maximum lobe lift of a stock lobe 5.0 HO camshaft is .278". NMRA will not accept a lobe lift of less than .270" or more than .278". These lobe lifts are within the parameter of a "stock lobe 5.0 HO camshaft". The choice of rocker ratio is the racers with the maximum valve lift at the retainer not to exceed .480".
Valve lift will be checked at retainer with pushrod & rocker as run, using a blocked up OEM Ford hydraulic roller lifter, at zero lash.

Durations/Lobe Separations are checked with camshaft & hydraulic roller lifter in block. Duration/Lobe separation is measured at the crankshaft. Lobe lift is measured at the hydraulic roller lifter.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

The 165s were $1995 CDN/pair plus PST/GST. The guy told me over the phone that he couldn't believe how much better a head the AFRs were..

Then I bought all my gaskets, ARP heads bolts, Crane Energizer 1.7 RRs <-- all of which he gave me 15% off on for buying the heads there.

It was cheaper to buy the heads there at Westside than ordering them from the States and then paying all the crap we Canadians pay for importing this type of stuff. Ordering stateside would have been about $150 more by the time UPS man collected his brokerage, PST/GST plus shipping charges etc etc...

That's not a bad price at all. I've abandoned the idea of buying state side myself, but have since started buying most of my stuff here.
http://www.themustangshop.ca/site/cat_explore.php?c=314&Method=Category
Good prices and you only pay one tax since it's in Alberta. Mind you, he cut you some slack for all the hardware associated with it, so you still made out Ok.

 

[thumper460]

Schlodes... killer on the AFRs.. With a bigger cam to let the AFRs work, your rocking!! Bummer on the Customs thing..Gotta really sux!! Anywhay keep us posted with the results..cool??

Just me.............................

Thumper

 

[Michael Yount]

Steve - Rick's numbers attest to the fact that there are lots of ways to go quick in the quarter. It doesn't take near as much HP as some think IF (big if) your car can put it all to the ground, with a good driver. Rick clearly has those two factors in check. Also (thanks for the details on cam spec) - many people use what we used to call 'cheater' cams - although they are legal per the rules described above. I'll promise you folks that are competitive in that class are probably taking advantage of custom cams that meet the specs described above, but have much different lobe shapes than the stock HO. So your desires for info about stock-cammed cars in the 11's and 12's are sort of arbitrary - you see what I mean? Build what you want to build, and enjoy it.

 

[Ackbar00]

I went [email protected] with a Stock cam and 1.7 Cobra Rockers. My Full combo is on my webpage. Just remove the turbo kit and add Longtubes with 3in exhaust, and that is what I was running.


It went 120 MPH with a Stock cam and the turbo

 

[Blue Thunder]

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford/