How much can an honest T5 take?

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Rcdgl

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Feb 19, 2018
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My 7.5 in axle, with a Ford traction lock and 410 gears has held up to a number of high 7 and low 8 second eighth mile passes. 1.8 sixty foots on BFB drag radials. Some with a bit of spray. Theres two 8.8s in the back yard in case it fails....
 
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FastDriver

My dad had a bra
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Sep 5, 2001
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Well isn't this guy interesting! We've confirmed all his theories, fellas. We're all rooting for you, man. Would someone please pass the popcorn? :pop:

You're wasting your time here, @Noobz347 already proclaimed my efforts as useless so there's no point of discussing it any further, right? ;)
LMAO! Less than 30 seconds of searching... How much did you read before you started telling regulars your theories? I love the "way out there on the other side of the box" thinking, but it just isn't necessary, this time.

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-much-hp-can-a-stock-t5-handle.506851/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-much-can-a-t5-handle.518979/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/t5-handle-my-setup.517314/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/what-kinda-hp-numbers-can-a-t5-handle.630173/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-much-can-a-v8-world-class-t5-handle.741551/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/how-much-hp-trq-can-a-factory-t5-take.567179/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/torque-ratings-on-t5s.400214/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/stock-t5-hp-max.528713/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/what-can-a-stock-t5-trans-handle.899933/#post-9073895
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/can-i-run-a-dr-with-my-stock-t5.899574/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/what-can-a-stock-t5-trans-handle.899933/#post-9073741
 

yldouright

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Jul 15, 2018
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@FastDriver
I appreciate the links. Next time I'll search more thoroughly before posting but the premise of the probability matrix I offered does have some value when it comes to evaluating your drive train odds of survival. Why was it so poorly received?

Not all u-joints are made of material so brittle that they fail without any evidence of the pending failure before it happens. I suggested this as a test of how much strain was being put on the drive train, not a recommendation of use so I don't understand the venom. You can only learn new things if you're willing to challenge what's accepted practice, it shouldn't be a reason to go off on somebody.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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@FastDriver
I appreciate the links. Next time I'll search more thoroughly before posting but the premise of the probability matrix I offered does have some value when it comes to evaluating your drive train odds of survival. Why was it so poorly received?

Not all u-joints are made of material so brittle that they fail without any evidence of the pending failure before it happens. I suggested this as a test of how much strain was being put on the drive train, not a recommendation of use so I don't understand the venom. You can only learn new things if you're willing to challenge what's accepted practice, it shouldn't be a reason to go off on somebody.
This is what I am thinking:

I'm thinking that in the 48 years you've been here on Earth, you've never, ever been to a drag strip.
You've never had a car that you beat on as a kid,....you've never done something stupid and heard the loud bang that comes as a direct result of the bad choice. You've never actually laid underneath one to see some puddle forming because fluid that was once contained in one of the drivetrain parts of that car, is now compromised, and pouring out of the hole or crack caused by your bad choice.

U joints come in two categories...stock, and heavy duty. Typically the stock one will/might have a grease fitting that compromises its structural integrity. It's made of low carbon steel and rated to withstand a significant amount of time and stress doing its job.

They wear out after doing their job for tens of thousands of miles...and ONLY after tens of thousand of miles.

When one breaks, it doesn't bend, twist, or stretch. It shatters or shears. It would never give you any visual clue as to its impending failure before that happens. You could be as diligent as you want, put the car up on a lift, inspect your stock joint, and give it your thumbs up.

Then go out, put a set of 8" drag slicks on the car, put it on a track, rev the engine to 5,000 rpm, sidestep the clutch, and
BAM!
No warning, no signs, no noise, no vibration before to warn you.........just one loud assed bang, followed by you laying on the ground looking at that stick thing that has now dug itself into the drag strip, and probably tore the hell out of the floor of the car at the same time.

There's no chart to gauge this,...and the probability factor is certain...it will break.

Either as a result of excessive force, repeated abuse, or stupidity...one, or a combination of all three will be the determining factor as to how soon.
 

yldouright

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CarMichael Angelo said:
I'm thinking that in the 48 years you've been here on Earth, you've never, ever been to a drag strip.
This is the only truth in your rant. I road track ~3x/year and have intermittently for the last 20 years, I also wrench my own cars (modded Dodge Lancer currently). I obviously don't have the level of experience and familiarity exhibited here but that very quality is what allows me to consider things that are immediately written off by old salts like you. Sometimes, a fresh perspective can be valuable in thinking of new and better ways to do things. I made a suggestion that got some feedback. I was ready for that but I didn't expect the pH to be as low as it was in your post. In my mind I imagined a u-joint that would distort under excessive load which then could be measured. I have assisted a u-joint repair and know they're less problematic than repairing a T5 and that's what prompted the idea. Now that you've elaborated on why this won't work, I understand more and isn't that really why we're all here?

I read through all the links provided that preceded mine on this subject. It led me to other links that informed me not all T5's are created equal. The gear ratios also influence the probable durability outcome of your T5 and so do alignment issues, backlash, etc. All those things can be entered into the probability factor matrix I created but none of those things make the idea of trying to evaluate that risk of failure useless. The fact that the person who introduced a way to do that (AFAIK no-one came up with it before me) isn't the guy with the most grease stained shirt shouldn't annul the contribution. What is right is more important than who is right, at least it should be to anyone who believes in the American ethos. That's what I'm thinking :)
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
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This is the only truth in your rant. I road track ~3x/year and have intermittently for the last 20 years, I also wrench my own cars (modded Dodge Lancer currently). I obviously don't have the level of experience and familiarity exhibited here but that very quality is what allows me to consider things that are immediately written off by old salts like you. Sometimes, a fresh perspective can be valuable in thinking of new and better ways to do things. I made a suggestion that got some feedback. I was ready for that but I didn't expect the pH to be as low as it was in your post. In my mind I imagined a u-joint that would distort under excessive load which then could be measured. I have assisted a u-joint repair and know they're less problematic than repairing a T5 and that's what prompted the idea. Now that you've elaborated on why this won't work, I understand more and isn't that really why we're all here?

I read through all the links provided that preceded mine on this subject. It led me to other links that informed me not all T5's are created equal. The gear ratios also influence the probable durability outcome of your T5 and so do alignment issues, backlash, etc. All those things can be entered into the probability factor matrix I created but none of those things make the idea of trying to evaluate that risk of failure useless. The fact that the person who introduced a way to do that (AFAIK no-one came up with it before me) isn't the guy with the most grease stained shirt shouldn't annul the contribution. What is right is more important than who is right, at least it should be to anyone who believes in the American ethos. That's what I'm thinking :)
Look, all I have to gauge you by is your content.

You come here and introduce yourself as intending to build a Streetable "road track" car using an LS engine as a power plant.
Understand that by your very first posts, you alienate yourself to 90-95% of the community here simply with that statement.
( ford boys don't take kindly to transgender swaps, no more than a Chrysler guy likes a Ford motor in theirs)
For the couple here that have and are participants, they lead by example. The work they do is high quality, and serves as eye candy if nothing else. They also have made their choices without any input from anyone else here. It would be fruitless to come to a Ford Mustang forum, and ask for advice on which Chevrolet engine makes for the best replacement for the perfectly capable engine already there.

So the few that have done this didn't ask.
If you are seeking advice here within the parameters of the forum, there are plenty of great people here that are ready to step up with answers and good solid tech.
Along those same lines, there are many seasoned individuals here, myself included that will be either non-responsive, or quick to be critical on statements made from anybody making unfounded, inaccurate, or just plain bs.

There are several facets of this hobby that I know very little about. I make a point to either ask, if I want clarification, or stay quiet.

My points are simple then...

Ask when you want answers.
Comment from a position of familiarity, or knowledge.
Contribute when you want input, and support.
And keep the BS out of the rest.
 

7991LXnSHO

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Sep 1, 2010
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Early on in a different Mustang, I had the 7.5" rear set up with a clutch type limited slip differential from Ford and had no problems. The mechanic could not keep the SROD from popping out of first or second gear with a bang until it went really wrong. But the rear end never gave me a bit of trouble. The second motor I had in it was an E7 era roller Marshall rebuild with an Edelbrock EGR intake, headers, dual exhaust and the dual sorkel cold air intake off a later carbed GT. I know power was nowhere 400 :hp but the rear was rock solid with the power level, and much cheaper than finding an 8.8" rear at that point. It hit the strip several times, losing to a school project Pinto from H3ll, and beating the second gen Camaros by several lengths.
 

yldouright

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@7991LXnSHO
Thanks for the helpful anecdotal evidence. Which T2-R pumpkins should I be looking at to mate with Ford's 7.5" rear axles? Are all Ford's 7.5" rear axles geared identically?

@CarMicahael Angelo
I'm not a fanboy of any corporate brand and I respect tech from wherever it comes. I couldn't think of a lighter or smaller engine that could make the power goal of this project but if you could direct me a better one to put in a Fox that I hadn't considered before, I'd look into it. Your post indicates you've seen my other threads. I'm glad of this because I'll need as many eyes as possible keeping me from making expensive mistakes. I prefer good advice given gruffly over wrong advice given politely any day. That said, I'd hate to lose your support over my ignorance of u-joint metallurgy :)
 
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Stevenmverrill

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F an A to you man! said something stupid on the interweab ( been using it before that schmuck) got a bunch of bs/trooling for it, defended your points, and found complete peace when you were blatantly wrong. a lot more than I can say for myself on many occasions. Pretty new my self but! I think that is the productive mindset necessary to share your wisdom, and acquire others.

For what it's worth from me, welcom.
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
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F an A to you man! said something stupid on the interweab ( been using it before that schmuck) got a bunch of bs/trooling for it, defended your points, and found complete peace when you were blatantly wrong. a lot more than I can say for myself on many occasions. Pretty new my self but! I think that is the productive mindset necessary to share your wisdom, and acquire others.

For what it's worth from me, welcom.
What does all of this mean?^^^
 

CarMichael Angelo

I don't like your attitude, let me fix that.
SN Certified Technician
Nov 29, 1999
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@7991LXnSHO
Thanks for the helpful anecdotal evidence. Which T2-R pumpkins should I be looking at to mate with Ford's 7.5" rear axles? Are all Ford's 7.5" rear axles geared identically?

@CarMicahael Angelo
I'm not a fanboy of any corporate brand and I respect tech from wherever it comes. I couldn't think of a lighter or smaller engine that could make the power goal of this project but if you could direct me a better one to put in a Fox that I hadn't considered before, I'd look into it. Your post indicates you've seen my other threads. I'm glad of this because I'll need as many eyes as possible keeping me from making expensive mistakes. I prefer good advice given gruffly over wrong advice given politely any day. That said, I'd hate to lose your support over my ignorance of u-joint metallurgy :)
Whether the 6.0 aluminum LS engine is a better, or lighter engine than a 302, or 351 is irrelevant. The point I was making was that a ford specific forum is not the place to start off asking for input and suggestions on which Chevrolet engine would be best to choose as a starting point.

A ford engine has come along way...a 5.0 with aftermarket induction will make over 300 hp.....a 351 with the same, close to 400.

I fully intended to put a Jy LS in the current car....I too bought into the Internet stories detailing example after example of dirt cheap JY 5300 and 6.0 LS engines standing up to stupid abuse right out of the cars/trucks they were plucked from....

I stated my intentions....

I got dogged for it from the community....I did some soul searching....I chose to stay ford powered..

My engine is neither light, compact, or powerful.....but it is a Ford.

In the end for me it was about keeping the car true to its brand....for the sake of participating in ford specific events, community forums, and my own allegiance to the brand
....id rather spend 10 grand on a ford motor that "belongs," than 2000-5000 on some morphadite cross breed that was swapped in because " it was cheaper".

Tanner is our resident LS swapper.....he'll tell you that the "LS is cheaper" mantra is only true until you try and put it in a fox body Mustang, and as long as you keep the engine bolted together...

Once you start replacing the intake, heads, cam, pistons, and rods to insure the engine will survive race conditions.....things change.

So to that end, I have no recommendation for a "better platform" for you...I wil say that if a LS trips your trigger, maybe a different chassis might be more appropriate...like the one the engine came out of.

Camaro comes to mind.
 

yldouright

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@CarMichael Angelo
Taking the Bob Marley post into account, I think @Stevenmverrill :) means we should get along better. Is the Ford rear one of the areas you're a little less knowledgable about? There is no sarcasm saying that, I just noted that you passed over my questions when you posted. The Camaro adds about 300lbs to the Fox and it's no where as convenient as a daily back up. I'm willing to get some grief about bastardizing my Ford because I think the end result is worth it. I might be wrong, it won't be the first time :)