How much can an honest T5 take?

General karthief · Jul 24, 2018

It means that the t5 he puts behind that ls engine might just hold up if a u joint fails, or the rear axle fails, or not.
i also think you need to put a ford in a ford, how many chevys do you see with ford power? If you're going to do the ls thing this (and I think this has already been said) is not the place for you.

yldouright · Jul 24, 2018

@General karthief
It hadn't been said as plainly as that

96pushrod · Jul 25, 2018

yldouright said:
I'm not a fanboy of any corporate brand and I respect tech from wherever it comes. I couldn't think of a lighter or smaller engine that could make the power goal of this project but if you could direct me a better one to put in a Fox that I hadn't considered before, I'd look into it. Your post indicates you've seen my other threads. I'm glad of this because I'll need as many eyes as possible keeping me from making expensive mistakes. I prefer good advice given gruffly over wrong advice given politely any day. That said, I'd hate to lose your support over my ignorance of u-joint metallurgy

You can build an aluminum headed Windsor that will perform just as well as an ls, for around the same weight. Why not just build a dart block stroker? Shoot you can even pick up an aluminum block if you wanna go all out.

People seem to think of an ls as just this godly engine when, realistically , any motor can be built very stout with the correctly matched parts for similar prices. Fuel + air = power, regardless of whether it’s a Windsor or one of those played out ls’s

90sickfox · Jul 25, 2018

This is getting redundant... Man... build what you want. We will assist with any mustang issues you have. If you go the LS route there are a couple folks here that have done it. Would like to see something Ford going in it....but....its your car.

I'm sure there's someone here that dislikes turbos....I have one anyways.

FastDriver · Jul 25, 2018

I think guys are taking this too far. You wanna hang out here and put an LS in, then by all means. I don't believe in running people off, so long as they're being cool.

General karthief · Jul 25, 2018

90sickfox said:
I'm sure there's someone here that dislikes turbos....I have one anyways.

I like turbos, it's the jack stands I hate.

yldouright · Jul 25, 2018

@90sickfox
I think my questions about the T5 have been sufficiently answered for the time being. I'm still waiting for replies to my questions about the 7.5 rear mating.

@96pushrod
Every Windsor or Cleveland with Aluminum heads I cosidered gains ~150lbs. or more over the LS and shifts that weight forward creating more handling challenges. In addition, the Windsor would probably need to be braced at those power levels. All these points are separate from the cost of the build which for most people, is a serious consideration. Why would you be okay with a MOPAR transplant but argue against an LS? Is there any advantage the hemi offers over the LS?

General karthief · Jul 25, 2018

Why would you even consider a 7.5 when the 8.8 would be an obvious choice?

96pushrod · Jul 25, 2018

yldouright said:
@90sickfox
I think my questions about the T5 have been sufficiently answered for the time being. I'm still waiting for replies to my questions about the 7.5 rear mating.

@96pushrod
Every Windsor or Cleveland with Aluminum heads I cosidered gains ~150lbs. or more over the LS and shifts that weight forward creating more handling challenges. In addition, the Windsor would probably need to be braced at those power levels. All these points are separate from the cost of the build which for most people, is a serious consideration. Why would you be okay with a MOPAR transplant but argue against an LS? Is there any advantage the hemi offers over the LS?

Where are you getting these numbers? An ls and Windsor are damn near the same weight. If the ls is an iron block with aluminum heads, as well as the Windsor, they’re the same.

I’m not condoning the mopar transplant...that would be interesting though lol.

wiseguyk · Jul 25, 2018

yldouright said:
Why would you be okay with a MOPAR transplant but argue against an LS? Is there any advantage the hemi offers over the LS?

Dart is a company known for making aftermarket stock-style engine blocks but they improve on all the weaknesses of the factory blocks to make them handle much more power. http://dartheads.com/product-category/small-b-ford/blocks-small-b-ford/

I believe this is what @96pushrod was referring to, not using a motor from an actual Dodge Dart

yldouright · Jul 25, 2018

General karthief said:
Why would you even consider a 7.5 when the 8.8 would be an obvious choice?

Good point but the car I'm looking at for this project has a 7.5 and that's why I'm asking about it. Remember, I'm trying to do this economically and all the posts so far indicate the 7.5 is not a typical problem. If I can get it to play nice with T2-R diffs from different manufacturers, that's the way I'll go.

96pushrod said:
Where are you getting these numbers? An ls and Windsor are damn near the same weight. If the ls is an iron block with aluminum heads, as well as the Windsor, they’re the same.

Yes, but I'm not using an iron block in my project. See the updates in this thread.
Engine weights are published, here is one source.

@wiseguyk
Thanks, I had no idea these existed but I'm much more comfortable with the LS for my budget.

FastDriver · Jul 25, 2018

@96pushrod
Every Windsor or Cleveland with Aluminum heads I cosidered gains ~150lbs. or more over the LS

I'd have to see that to believe it. Your link lists a 5.0 at 411 lbs. Aluminum heads will drop that by ~40 lbs. Therefore, you're trying to say that an LS motor weighs less than 411 - 40 - 150 = 221 lbs? Yeah... Gonna go out on a limb and say that's not even possible. Same story for the 351. It's heavier, but not that much. I think the LS is heavier than the 5.0, too.

Have you considered a Coyote? It's damn near the same weight as 302 sbf, and they are winning all kinds of engine awards.

The 7.5 cars have different brake systems too. Maybe you should consider another car? You're talking about going with the LS motor for its power potential on one hand and saying the 7.5 isn't the problem on the other. You want to save money on a sub $500 rear end, but want to swap to another brand motor on the other. You seem pretty gung ho about your way of doing things. That's cool; all the best. Let's see what happens... More popcorn please!

90sickfox · Jul 25, 2018

The 7.5 rear wil hold up to some abuse. It's not as strong as the 8.8. The are several places that make hearts for them.... but am 8.8 can be had for less than 300 bucks.... A quick junk yard run can get you 5 lug axles ( ranger or aerostar van you can only pull one axle from each ), front spindles, front calipers, rear caliper brackets, rear calipers, master cylinder and proportioning valve. The brake stuff could be less than 200 bucks. My cobra front calipers, rotors, and spindles were under 100 bucks.

500 bucks is cheap for a complete brake and rear system.

The 7.5 will live to a certain point....I don't think anyone really knows when it'll grenade...just like a t5. There are too many variables.

It's not hard to swap to the better 8.8. Its also easier to convert to better disc brakes or stronger axles. The AWD explorers have 31 spline 8.8 carriers. ( all your have to do is purchase axles ). Even if it all came out to 800 buck youd still be ahead.

With all the headache on a budget I'd stick to what came in the car. Will the power steering work...will the alternator work...will the radiator inlets and outlets work....t5 to LS bellhousing price...will the driveshaft line up....fabricate exhaust...or buy swap stuff....engine mounts....fuel system.... ????....these all translate to more money...more power and safety could be had with the same money in an explorer 5.0 and updated braking.

Edit; not to mention... wiring....electric fan.... engine management ?

Most of us that have been doing this for a while start from another direction.

I gained experience over the years. I'd rather have a 4 cylinder with an 8.8, disc brakes, and new or upgraded suspension than a v8 power beast with 4 cylinder stuff that's not up to the task.

This guy ( finger pointing at myself ) had a 4 cylinder car with a 460 slapped in it. That thing was a death trap. The engine wasn't built but the car was completely unsafe and sketchy.

Mustangs have a huge need for better braking even at the factory 225hp and the 4 cylinder brakes are even worse.

FastDriver · Jul 25, 2018

Yeah, not a full rear & brake system, but he's talking about a track car. At least needs to go cobras back there. I couldn't get more than $500 (maybe it was $400) for my 5 lug 8.8 with brackets & 3.73s. Didn't come with the rotors/calipers, though.

CarMichael Angelo · Jul 25, 2018

96pushrod said:
You can build an aluminum headed Windsor that will perform just as well as an ls, for around the same weight. Why not just build a dart block stroker? Shoot you can even pick up an aluminum block if you wanna go all out.

People seem to think of an ls as just this godly engine when, realistically , any motor can be built very stout with the correctly matched parts for similar prices. Fuel + air = power, regardless of whether it’s a Windsor or one of those played out ls’s

Played out LS's...

Time to play devil's advocate..

.Power potential ISNT the the reason for considering an LS over the Ford engine.....it comes that way already.
It's several factors....theyre everywhere, in everything.
The 6.0 engine is factory rated at 360/380. Is dimensionally smaller than a 351, ( significantly) yet weighs the same while displacing 50 more cubic inches.
The engine has 6 bolt mains, Only two for a Windsor, comes with a much better CNP ignition system, and has an oil pan that lets the engine drop right into a fox engine compartment. And...if you leave the damn thing alone,..it'll almost get 30 mpg at that power level.

I get that. For somebody like me who can do all of the necessary fabrication to make it fit, an LS makes perfect sense
While it's true that it doesn't just drop in w/o fabrication, you can't exactly do that with a 351 either.
You have to scrounge for a fox chassis oil pan just to fit a 351 into the car, and it's that same pan that prevents somebody from setting it any lower or farther back should you be so inclined.

People don't consider these things because they can be made to make more power...(they certainly can) they buy them for all of the reasons listed above. it's when that factory power level isn't adequate that things start getting more expensive and the playing field starts to level out. The rods are powdered metal, the caps are powdered metal, the roller cam is hollow, the intake is plastic and very tall, and the piston is suspect for pin failure after too many miles, or abuse.
Sure,...you could make a Windsor come up to that power level
With heads,cam, and intake..and the block has proven itself to be capable of over 600 HP.. But....we're supposed to be talking budget here..
And you Have to add that stuff to even get close to factory LS numbers.

Show me a jy 351 that is rated anywhere near those numbers,
(you can't) the engine has been long discontinued and was last seen 20 years ago in a new truck....so even if you did find one it'll have a bazillion miles on it.

FastDriver · Jul 25, 2018

Yes... tired discussion. LS is a good motor. There's a guy on the other forum with a thread showing 372 rwhp with a mild 11R 190cc headed combo in the 302. 400+ is fairly mundane with the strokers. Me? Just a $500 set of heads, any ol' alphabet cam, any decent intake (GT40, Cobra, Performer), and then turbo the damn thing and push the limits of the stock block at 500 rwhp. But then, I don't care to stay n/a. I think this could honestly be done under $3k. < $1k for upper parts. < $2k for good used turbo kit.

Junkyard 351 idea is great if you've already got the 302 parts. Say you blow up your 302 or just decide to upgrade and already have the before parts. Then everything (heads/cam/intake, oil pan, etc... etc...) swaps directly over and you're good to 600+ rwhp. That's the point of a 351.

Wanna go higher? I mean, once you start talking 800+ there are a thousand ways to skin that cat. LS? sure... dart? sure... You're going to be paying some coin for the whole car build regardless.

a91what · Jul 25, 2018

meh... explorer 5.0 new gaskets, cam, on3 turbo kit making 8psi = 380/440
coming in at under $2200 and no special swap stuff needed...
at the weight of a fox this is cheap easy power

FastDriver · Jul 25, 2018

Why stop at 8? Intercooled 15 on 93 octane seems to work.

Stevenmverrill · Jul 25, 2018

So are we talking about an ls swap now? Lol op I don't know what a 7.5 is or from. I know my way around an 8.8. What is the car? I'm assuming a fox?

In my area we have junk yards called "crazy rays". It's dirt cheep but you have to take the parts off your self. From what I gather here my shopping list would be:

Jy
.Lsx complete $300
(From an old s10 4.3 project I got a 5 speed from a 1500 work truck that bolts to a sbc if I remember correctly I think it was actually a T5)
.Trans from said work truck 200$
.sn95 8.8 complete, spindles complete with brakes 180$
.gm slip yoke from donor work truck 20$( they normally tell me free because they look at me like an idiot with a bent drive shaft)

That's all your hard parts for 800 and 2 days work.

FastDriver · Jul 25, 2018

7.5 came in the 4-cyl foxes.

How much can an honest T5 take?

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

yldouright

Member

96pushrod

I think they're a little easier to get off

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

yldouright

Member

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

96pushrod

I think they're a little easier to get off

wiseguyk

yldouright

Member

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

Stevenmverrill

FastDriver

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

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