How much do you want your payments to be?

Vandil · May 5, 2005

topless beach said:
You are ignoring the power of car lust.

Vandil-actually the APR is on a Cap One blank check-I'm looking at one that I plan to use.

On the check or on the material attached to the rip out check? Mine have all had the APR on the attached material. Easy enough to only take the actual check with.

damnisityellow · May 6, 2005

the reason we as salesmen ask about payment and trade are very simple. it is to qualify the customer to see if they can actually buy or are willing to pay for the vehicle. you guys only see your account of the process, we see it several times a day. the typical (90% or greater) customer says they want their payment around $350 a month and are an average of $4000-$6000 upside down. this is not gonna happen, without substantial down payment, on any car on the lot. so we ask, "what [payment range would you like to be at? if the answer is $350, we know the first thing to do is to raise your expected payment using the rule of $20 paid per $1000 financed. for example: you want a new mustang at $25000, with zero down, i knowyour payment is at the $500 a month mark. you are trading a dodge truck financed through a prime lender, i know you are on averasge $6000 upside down. so your payoff is gonna cost you $120 a month, leaving only $230 of that $350 for your new car. &230 a month gets you nothing. so you need $13000 down!! or you need to tell me you are willing to pay $620 a month for long term.I have wasted neither your time or mine. and ALWAYS remeber this, with the exception of a limited model such as the 05 mustang, if a dealer lets you walk out the door, he is at the bottom of the deal. you can either turn around and sign up, or keep going and buy a CHEAPER vehicle.stay tuned, next time we will get around to the customer who wants to finance 150% of loan value with a 530 beacon

10cylinder · May 6, 2005

When I bought my Ex almost a year and a half ago I walked into the dealer with a pre-approved loan from my CU and my paid-off Ranger as trade-in and told the salesman I wanted the Ex out the door for my pre-approved loan amount. This meant they had to give me about $500 more on my trade than KBB Trade-in and drop the price of the Ex a grand or so but they made it work and I left satisfied and rather quickly considering the usual car buying process. Sure I probably could have haggled more and maybe got another 500 or so out of them but the ease of purchase of this method was worth something to me too.

topless beach · May 6, 2005

Vandil said:
On the check or on the material attached to the rip out check? Mine have all had the APR on the attached material. Easy enough to only take the actual check with.

Vandil-you're right the APR is on the attached sheet.

BTW I was approved by Cap One for 60 mo @5.25%. I checked on Costco's website who finances cars thru Cap One and because of my Costco membership I'm getting it down to 4.90%

Vandil · May 6, 2005

topless beach said:
Vandil-you're right the APR is on the attached sheet.

BTW I was approved by Cap One for 60 mo @5.25%. I checked on Costco's website who finances cars thru Cap One and because of my Costco membership I'm getting it down to 4.90%

Not bad at all, better deal than they ever offer me. For me they are always 2-3 full points above my brick and mortar institutions, which is way to much for the convenience factor of the check. At least I found an alternate use for them.

bigcat · May 6, 2005

sorry, i looked into the ford motor credit issue, and they use a complicated tier system....your credit score, equity of the trade, cash down and structure of the deal all play into the tier that you would qualify for with FMC. i tried to trade out of my wifes car after only 2 months of owning it, and it dropped me to a tier 3, but when i bought it, i was a tier 1.....the tiers go from 0-5 and 0 is the best. when you trade out of a vehicle after just buying it, unless you had alot of money down, you are in a negative equity situation, like me....so with the negative equity, i couldnt get a good rate with FMC....but i did with a local bank. sorry i couldnt be more specific to your situation......but a finance manager would have to look at your entire situation to give you a reate w/ FMC.

05Stangster · May 6, 2005

My dealer told me "FMC does not try to beat anyone with their rates." If you qualify, they let you know the rate. If you don't qualify or like the rate they gave you, then the finance person will look at alternative financing. FMC was kind enough to offer me, get this, 9.75% - I got financing through IBM Federal Credit Union for 4.9%. It pays to shop around - don't count on FMC - they are hoping you will

BradC · May 6, 2005

Do your reasearch

I did my research and then I did some more. First thing to mention, I stopped by at about 8pm on a night when the dealership closed at 9pm. I'm sure it's not a huge advantage, but if you don't mind staying late, they might be more likely to try and close the deal.

I walked in there with a printed spreadsheet detailing the Invoice and MSRP of each and every option, plus a chart of the monthly payments based on 4 and 5 years, with everything from $1000 down up to $8000 down. I had a nice grid that told me every payment option available.

The thing that really flustered the guy was when he made a counter offer on my trade-in, I whipped out my Palm-Pilot with a copy of that spreadsheet and crunched the numbers right there on the spot to determine what the total cost, monthly payment etc would be based on his offer. He was really taken back that I was so prepared and knew exactly where every cent of my money was going.

I had a 768 credit score, $8500 to put down and was willing to pay sticker so I basically told him what I wanted to pay, what I wanted to get for my trade (upside down by $2500), and what interest rate I wanted. I pretty much got the deal I wanted.

Incidentally, even with all of that knowledge and research, he still ended up talking me into taking $1000 less for my trade than I originally wanted, but it still wasn't unreasonable to me so I took the deal.

SVTdriver · May 6, 2005

damnisityellow said:
the reason we as salesmen ask about payment and trade are very simple. it is to qualify the customer to see if they can actually buy or are willing to pay for the vehicle. you guys only see your account of the process, we see it several times a day. the typical (90% or greater) customer says they want their payment around $350 a month and are an average of $4000-$6000 upside down. this is not gonna happen, without substantial down payment, on any car on the lot. so we ask, "what [payment range would you like to be at? if the answer is $350, we know the first thing to do is to raise your expected payment using the rule of $20 paid per $1000 financed. for example: you want a new mustang at $25000, with zero down, i knowyour payment is at the $500 a month mark. you are trading a dodge truck financed through a prime lender, i know you are on averasge $6000 upside down. so your payoff is gonna cost you $120 a month, leaving only $230 of that $350 for your new car. &230 a month gets you nothing. so you need $13000 down!! or you need to tell me you are willing to pay $620 a month for long term.I have wasted neither your time or mine. and ALWAYS remeber this, with the exception of a limited model such as the 05 mustang, if a dealer lets you walk out the door, he is at the bottom of the deal. you can either turn around and sign up, or keep going and buy a CHEAPER vehicle.stay tuned, next time we will get around to the customer who wants to finance 150% of loan value with a 530 beacon

So why not be upfront with a customer before asking about payment and trade. Give them the "facts". If you tell a person before asking what they want for a payment. Then they may not feel taken advantage of. If a salesperson was to tell me exactly what I was going to pay per thousand. I could do the math. And that would tell me what I will pay. Based on what I already know about how much I am upside down or not. And her is the other rub. You say $20 per $1k financed. 3 weeks ago the dealer trying to sell my sister a car said $25. That's a 20% increase over your figures. Then despite the low value of her car being $2700. He wanted to only give her $500. Since she didn't owe anything on it. And then people wonder why noone trusts a car dealer.
By the way. When did the mustang become a limited model?

damnisityellow · May 7, 2005

SVTdriver said:
So why not be upfront with a customer before asking about payment and trade. Give them the "facts". If you tell a person before asking what they want for a payment. Then they may not feel taken advantage of. If a salesperson was to tell me exactly what I was going to pay per thousand. I could do the math. And that would tell me what I will pay. Based on what I already know about how much I am upside down or not. And her is the other rub. You say $20 per $1k financed. 3 weeks ago the dealer trying to sell my sister a car said $25. That's a 20% increase over your figures. Then despite the low value of her car being $2700. He wanted to only give her $500. Since she didn't owe anything on it. And then people wonder why noone trusts a car dealer.
By the way. When did the mustang become a limited model?

Believe me, we do try and get to the facts quickly.customers are so guarded , they don't want to give any info for fear we may use it against them.A salespoerson cannot tell you exactly what you will pay per thousand. the tier, rate, lendor, credit score or history have not been determined yet.

How do you know how much upside down you are?

The $20 dollar rule is general, the average joe with the average credit at the average tier.

Yes, there are thieves in the business, no doubt. therer are thieves in every business including the business you are in.

you still don't concede that the 2005 mustang is limited production? I won't waste time with that argument.

in summary, if the customer would answer a few questions truthfully within the first few minutes at the dealership, the whole process would take less than an hour. it is ultimately the customers decision as to whether the payments are to his liking, and he has the oppertunity to leave and compare another dealer. but when i bring you into the dealership and tell the business office where you want to be on price, trade, and payment, he knows all he has to do is adhere and sign you up. its that simple because i did my job. if you are uncooperative on the lot, you will never see my business manager, i would have shown you the way out before i waste anyone elses time.

jfischer · May 7, 2005

damnisityellow said:
you still don't concede that the 2005 mustang is limited production? I won't waste time with that argument.

No, that's just silly.

Any car with a production run of 200,000 a year is NOT limited production. Maybe the Cobra could be considered limited production, but certainly not the run of the mill 2005 Mustang. High demand yes, limited production - no.

PolkThug · May 7, 2005

damnisityellow said:
..customers are so guarded , they don't want to give any info for fear we may use it against them..

Because a lot of salesmen DO! I'm not suprised anymore that car salesmen always offer me EXACTLY what I owe on my trade-in.

salesman: "So Mr.PolkThug how much do you owe on your BMW?"
me: "Oh, about $15K."
salesman: "OK, let me go talk to used cars and see how much we can give you."
*long wait*
salesman: "I've got GREAT news. We can offer you $15K for it!"
me: "So, $5K below bluebook!!? No thanks."

But like you said, its up to the customer to make the final decision. Shop around!

From my experiences so far:
Ford salesmen = 50% bad
BMW salesmen = 66% bad

Regards,
PT

SVTdriver · May 7, 2005

damnisityellow said:
Believe me, we do try and get to the facts quickly.customers are so guarded , they don't want to give any info for fear we may use it against them.A salespoerson cannot tell you exactly what you will pay per thousand. the tier, rate, lendor, credit score or history have not been determined yet.

How do you know how much upside down you are?

The $20 dollar rule is general, the average joe with the average credit at the average tier.

Yes, there are thieves in the business, no doubt. therer are thieves in every business including the business you are in.

you still don't concede that the 2005 mustang is limited production? I won't waste time with that argument.

in summary, if the customer would answer a few questions truthfully within the first few minutes at the dealership, the whole process would take less than an hour. it is ultimately the customers decision as to whether the payments are to his liking, and he has the oppertunity to leave and compare another dealer. but when i bring you into the dealership and tell the business office where you want to be on price, trade, and payment, he knows all he has to do is adhere and sign you up. its that simple because i did my job. if you are uncooperative on the lot, you will never see my business manager, i would have shown you the way out before i waste anyone elses time.

First pardon the use of the word "exactly". It was late in my day. I know that until you know the credit score you won't know exact numbers. However everysalesman can tell a person the average credit score would get for payments. Much like you did.

Maybe I am above average. But every person I have met so far. Unless they got a great 0% rate. Within 3 years of buying the car. They are still upsidedown. I believe anyone too lazy to look up what their car is worth vs what they owe. Deserves what they get.

As far as thieves in my business. Yes I am sure there are. However in the trucking industry. A thief is 99.9% of the time. Actually breaking a law. And I have yet to see a trucking company charge a customer 20% over their published rates. Without it being a rushed load. With heavy time constraints. Yet mustang dealers are advising people to do just that. Pay 20% over MSRP. And then get ripped on interest rate as well. And hey it's legal.

Mark05GTVert · May 7, 2005

Thanks for all the insight Yellow... I really appreciate it.

samckernan · May 8, 2005

OUKimber said:
What amazes me about dealerships is when they ask you how much you owe on your trade-in. I always tell them that is none of their business right now and I want to know what THEY will give me for it. For some strange reason, this always, always puzzles them. They say "it doesn't matter to us how much you owe, it won't change the amount that we offer you". I end up laughing at them and saying yea right. I tell them that it makes no difference how much I owe on my vehicle, all that matters is what I am willing to take for it.

As another poster said, negotiate each deal separately. Negotiate a price on the car, negotiate a price in the trade in (if applicable), then sit with the finance office and negotiate a interest rate with them. Dealers love to lump everything into "what do you want your payments to be". It makes it easier for them to stick it to you. Get bottom dollar on the car, top dollar on the trade, and get at least 2 different financing options if possible.

On a side note I actually went to one of the most honest dealers that I have ever known a couple of weeks ago. When valuing my trade in, the manager actually brought me the kelley blue book trade in value printed off the internet to look at (it was 11K). Before I even said a single thing about it, he said that he could get it up to 12K, I said that I wasn't taking any less than 12.5K and he said ok. It was simply amazing. I didn't end up buying the new truck, but I know exactly where I am going when I am in the market again.

If it doesn't matter how much you owe on you trade-in, why are they asking you?

shelbykr3259 · May 8, 2005

when our GT shows up...grrr, is it going to piss off the salesman when we just write a check for the car?, do they lose a kickback from the credit guys?

PolkThug · May 8, 2005

shelbykr3259 said:
when our GT shows up...grrr, is it going to piss off the salesman when we just write a check for the car?, do they lose a kickback from the credit guys?

They will lose the extra percentage points that they tacked on. For example, you may qualify for 5.9% from FMC, but FMC sure as hell won't disclose that to you, its up to your friendly salesman to "negotiate" a rate. So the salesman will say something like, "I've got GREAT news, we can get you in at 7.9%!!"

Don't worry about the salesman, he will make money on you regardless.

shelbykr3259 · May 8, 2005

got it thanx

TexasDanger · May 8, 2005

interest rate

I got pre-approval through my credit union and financed 60 months at 3.5% . Credit unions are always the way to go. You should join one if you currently don't belong.

damnisityellow · May 9, 2005

jfischer said:
No, that's just silly.

Any car with a production run of 200,000 a year is NOT limited production. Maybe the Cobra could be considered limited production, but certainly not the run of the mill 2005 Mustang. High demand yes, limited production - no.

If only 7500 people wanted a cobra, then it wouldn't be limited production either would it?
If only 200 people wanted to see the game, there wouldn't be limited seating would there?

Production on the 2005 mustang is limited by the capacity of the plant to meet demand---------------------------period.

How much do you want your payments to be?

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