I went 12.03 and then this happened... (BIG DUW!)

Killercanary

The car that set the bar.
Founding Member
Nov 29, 1999
5,676
1
76
Altoona, PA
A little background... this past weekend I ran my best time ever, a 12.03, and on the last pass I made (which would have been an 11 second run based on the 60' and 330'!!!) I missed 4th and jammed the tranny into 2nd. Needless to say this wasn't good and below are the results of that mishap. Looks like I need all new exhaust valves and springs at a minimum. :(

I tore it down last night and here are the results. :bang:

I hit every exhaust valve, the pictures tell the story. It could have been a lot worse though...

I have NO idea what I'm going to do at this point. I spent all my "car fund" on my front suspension and theres nothing left in it. I can probably swing new valves and springs, but I hate to NOT do something with my well worn shortblock at this point since I'm already in there. I just don't know what to do... :shrug:

To keep this tech, is there anything else I should check before I put it back together?


bentvalves1.jpg


bentvalves3.jpg


bentvalves4.jpg


bentvalves7.jpg


hitpiston1.jpg


hitpiston2.jpg


hitpiston4.jpg


shortblock1.jpg
 
On another note, your K-member looks good in that last pic.

Sorry to hear about the car though. I can't say I have never done the 3rd to 2nd shift on the go though. Thinkin thats what tore my old GT tranny a new a$$. I know your pocketbook is empty, but I wouldn't go just doing the top end at this point. Worst case, park her for a bit. I saw you have another ride. I am newer here, and from what I see, you aren't the kind of person to half a$$ anything. Patience leads to greatness!!!

I know you will figure it out. Don't give up. At least it can be replaced. Not like you totaled the car.

Good luck to ya, I am sure you will let us know what your gonna do.
 
Damn Paul that sucks. But since you're into the motor that far how could you not do another shortblock, weather a 306 or whatever...I think you should just go for it while you can, if not you won't have another excuse anytime soon.
 
Dad Gum Paul

So sorry to see that happen.

I'd check everything really good like pistons, the complete valve train, and find someone you trust to check out your AFR's.

Do you think your trans is OK?

Later
Grady
 
how long do you think it'd take to build up enogh in your 'car fund' for a new motor?

sure it's hard to tear it down to that point but not that bad right... if it were me, i'd probaby fix what was wrong and get back to the track.

gotta ask again though, shifting into 2nd from 3rd twice... is there something wrong w/ ur shifter or the transmission?
 
I think you should take time now and polish everything :D

On a more serious note, this is the reason I havent taken my car to the track yet.. I just know the FIRST time I go, something like this will happen....and I dont have the knowledge/skill that you guys do to break it down and do it myself (nor do I have another car to drive)

Keep us posted
RC
 
94GTLaserRC said:
On a more serious note, this is the reason I havent taken my car to the track yet.. I just know the FIRST time I go, something like this will happen..


That was my main reason I dident go for along time and Ive only been once and that was 2 yrs ago. Now that my car is no longer a daily driver I will be back to the track this yr b/c I want to see what it will do w/ the supercharger. When I went to the track I also missed a gear, but when I was shifting up into 3ed it hit between 3ed and 5th and the shifter bounced back at me :rolleyes: . I was trying to hard to shift in insted of just letting the tri ax go through the smooth motion that it does on the street.

Paul it sucks that shift was messed up, you were so close to your 11's. If I were you I would try to fix only whats wrong w/ it and then get that 11 sec pass w/ your current motor just to say that you were able to do it. I saw in your sig web page that you have a tri ax, how did the shift get messed up so bad?
 
wow, that doesn't look good.

i am obviously no expert on this stuff so please excuse the seemingly stupid questions.

what caused the pistons to hit the valves? i know the shift into 2nd instead of 4th was the catalyst, but what really happened? did the rods break? or just too much rotational inertia? how much damage does that to to the bottom end?

good thing you have another car you can drive.

maybe you can get a cheap 5.0 out of a junkyard and drop it in while you are saving up for a new motor?
 
Man that is bad, hope you are able to get it going with what funds you do have left. That is some serious valve floating. I would get you some clay next time and check your valve to piston clearance. You might want to have those rods checked for stress fractures.
 
Thanks for the sympathy guys, I appreciate it.


As for how it happened....
After my 12.03 run I was kicking myself knowing that I was so close... had I known that maybe I could have nailed a shift quicker or something. Well, instead of just doing what I always do I got greedy and put too much effort into shifting and on the run after the 12.03 pass I missed 4th. This really made me mad because it WAS my 11 second run. Here's how close it was...

my 12.03 run.........versus.........would be 11 second run
60'......1.649...........................1.627
330'.....4.920..........................4.891

There's no use comparing the 1/8th mile on since I shift to 4th BEFORE the 1/8th and missing the shift there screwed up the run from there on out. :bang:

So on the next pass I was frustrated that I missed out on my 11 second time slip. This frustration led me to again force the gears instead of letting them go in on their own. When I missed 4th again instead of just aborting the run I got pissed off and pulled with all my might to get it in... only I pulled towards me and back. I have since discovered what I believe to be a big reason for this... when I race I sit INCREADIBLY close to the steering wheel so I don't have to "reach" for ths shifter. On this day I forgot to re-adjust my seat and this reach had me pulling the shifter towards me and not straight back. It sounds dumb but when you are shifting AS FAST AS YOU HUMALY CAN you don't have time to think "am I pulling it to the side instead of staright back?" All in all, it was MY fault and not the tranny or the shifter, I just tried too hard and screwed up. I think the tranny is fine as I drove it down the shut down area and back into the pits and up onto the trailer.

As for WHY the valves hit... it wasn't a PTV problem. For those that don't know I've had this combo together since 2001 and it has be run at the track more times than I can count and I checked it way back then. Hell, I've tagged the factory 7000rpm limiter a few times by accident (before I lowered it to 6400 last fall), and I have made dyno pulls to 6300 with NO PROBLEMS and NO signs of valve float. What I think happened in this case WAS valve float and it occured from the sheer speed at which I accelerated the motor/valvetrain when I let the clutch out at 80mph in 2nd gear. Going from 3rd to 2nd at 80mph probably only resulted in ~300-400 more rpm (based on gear ratio) so it wasn't a massive amount of rpm that did it I don't think.
EDIT: BOY was I wrong about this... I did the calculations and low and behold it was more like 8400rpms when I hit 2nd... OUCH! I don't know what I was thinking when I said 300-400

I'm glad you guys like the K member, it really does look good. I am very pleased with it. Thye new suspension definitely works as I almost stalled the car on my first run because it hooked so good... I launched at 4500 and it pulled the wheels off the ground and then BLAH it bogged and I almost bit the steering wheel! LOL! I dropped ~60-65lbs with it.

DonJohn- At most I can save a $100/month for the car fund, so as you can see it will be a LONG time before I am able to get it up and running again if I have to wait on that.

Rob- I understand your fear, but look at how long I have raced this car. Honestly this is the FIRST time since I started racing it in '97 that I had to have it trailered home from the track. That's pretty impressive concidering how much I race it. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Its not like you are going to be launching off the limiter on slicks, if you were THEN I'd be a little worried about your stock rear and such.


Striped- what you said about running 11's with what I have is the internal delema I'm going through right now. Honestly in my heart I did it, even though I don't have the paper slip to prove it. Looking at what it ran and what it would have run with the timeslips have lets me know I accomplished what I set out to do, and that was to run 11's WITH THE CURRENT COMBO of "little" parts without changing anything on the motor, but it would be nice to have that little piece of paper with it printed on. I just don't know what to do at this point. I HONESTLY was DONE racing my car after I ran an 11 second pass...now with this I don't know whether or not to just retire the car now and put it back together as quickly as possible and just enjoy driving it on the street, or up the ante a little and do some more work while I'm in there and have at it one more time to see how far INTO the 11's I can go. I promised my wife and family that I was done chasing the clock once I hit 11's and I plan to hold to that, but if I decide to go back for that 11 second slip, should I try and do a little more now to REALLY blast into the 11's??? :shrug:
 
Paul...my thinking was that the PV clearance must have been damn near at the min dim for clearance....not that it was wrong as you mentioned....what other reason would all the Exh valves hit ???
I know i've read it before if your to close and miss a gear...bye-bye...when I missed 4th last year i was waiting for the bang myself...i had some extra room but you never know...
Put up a list and we'll get a freebie fund going for you to help out...if I got something laying around you could use, its yours...Been there myself, hurting the motor bad...it does suck..
 
Killercanary said:
Striped- what you said about running 11's with what I have is the internal delema I'm going through right now. Honestly in my heart I did it, even though I don't have the paper slip to prove it. Looking at what it ran and what it would have run with the timeslips have lets me know I accomplished what I set out to do, and that was to run 11's WITH THE CURRENT COMBO of "little" parts without changing anything on the motor, but it would be nice to have that little piece of paper with it printed on. I just don't know what to do at this point. I HONESTLY was DONE racing my car after I ran an 11 second pass...now with this I don't know whether or not to just retire the car now and put it back together as quickly as possible and just enjoy driving it on the street, or up the ante a little and do some more work while I'm in there and have at it one more time to see how far INTO the 11's I can go. I promised my wife and family that I was done chasing the clock once I hit 11's and I plan to hold to that, but if I decide to go back for that 11 second slip, should I try and do a little more now to REALLY blast into the 11's??? :shrug:



You said it yourself, here's the dilemma. I don't think anyone on this board or any other would question your car would hit the 11's. You have everyone's respect here. :hail2: You know in your heart you proved what you set out to do. If that piece of paper is worth all the extra $, then you have your answer on what to do.

Maybe it's time to step away for a while and just enjoy it :cheers: . Meanwhile, set a new goal, map out the road to get there :spot: , and go for it.
 
Killercanary said:
I promised my wife and family that I was done chasing the clock once I hit 11's and I plan to hold to that, but if I decide to go back for that 11 second slip, should I try and do a little more now to REALLY blast into the 11's??? :shrug:


You have put a huge comitment into this car and getting that 11 second pass. You cant give up now. You cant go w/ some internal mods that will deff get you into the 11's but from what you said to see how deep into the 11's you can go. IMO did you get your 11 sec run, I truly think that sign at the end of the track would have lit up w/ 11.XX. But like you said its that little peice of paper that makes it all worth it. Paul your so close you cant " Change" Something on your combo now and see just how deep of 11's you can get. You owe it to yourself and the car to run it as it was, run it how you orginially built it and to rip off that 11 second run.