I went 12.03 and then this happened... (BIG DUW!)

wytstang · Apr 22, 2005

that sucks man go throught the entire drive train with a fine tooth comb. Your ARE there just but it back togther and go get the slip.

94-302-vert · Apr 22, 2005

Paul,

IMHO get it on the road to enjoy it knowing it can go 11's, then save that $100 a month and mod it out to slam into the 11's later this year or next.

I know I hate having to go through stang withdrawal and I have only been driving it since August.

Chris

mootang · Apr 22, 2005

I say you should at least get the heads ported while they are off. but if your on a budget just get it fixed and back on the road.

GOOD LUCK!

super302 · Apr 22, 2005

mootang said:
I say you should at least get the heads ported while they are off. but if your on a budget just get it fixed and back on the road.

GOOD LUCK!

Porting AFR heads can be VERY bad if not done pefrectly, afr recommends not even to have them ported b/c they design them "perfectly"

.....or so i've heard

TMC · Apr 22, 2005

Paul,

Pull the shortblock out and check things over. I've seen (multiple times) the wrist pins get tweaked on these motors when they are over-revved like your was. You'll know right away once they are out because the rod will not pivot freely on the pin/piston. The engine may turn over with what seems to be a reasonable amount of force even with bad pins. If they are bad and don't get corrected they won't last long in there. They WILL damage the piston pin bore and get loose very quickly, ending in even more damage than you have here.

If you pull it down and find that everything is in good condition than I would simply put rings and bearing in it and slap it back in. Bring the block in to be cleaned and have a light hone put on the bores and it should be good. Rings and bearings can be purchased for about $100 from Summit.

If you need rod or piston work than you'll need to weigh your options as the cost of fixing them may be only slightly less than a cheapo 306.

final5-0 · Apr 22, 2005

Killercanary said:
As for WHY the valves hit... it wasn't a PTV problem. For those that don't know I've had this combo together since 2001 and it has be run at the track more times than I can count and I checked it way back then. Hell, I've tagged the factory 7000rpm limiter a few times by accident (before I lowered it to 6400 last fall), and I have made dyno pulls to 6300 with NO PROBLEMS and NO signs of valve float. What I think happened in this case WAS valve float and it occured from the sheer speed at which I accelerated the motor/valvetrain when I let the clutch out at 80mph in 2nd gear. Going from 3rd to 2nd at 80mph probably only resulted in ~300-400 more rpm (based on gear ratio) so it wasn't a massive amount of rpm that did it I don't think.

I agree and I've seen on other occasions missed shifts similar to yours cause bent or broken valves which led to damaged or destroyed combustion chambers. Under those conditions the rpm sails up there really quick and the springs just can't control the valve.

Looking at what it ran and what it would have run with the timeslips have lets me know I accomplished what I set out to do, and that was to run 11's WITH THE CURRENT COMBO of "little" parts without changing anything on the motor, but it would be nice to have that little piece of paper with it printed on.

Boy do I understand about wanting the proof of a long time goal.

I promised my wife and family that I was done chasing the clock once I hit 11's and I plan to hold to that, but if I decide to go back for that 11 second slip, should I try and do a little more now to REALLY blast into the 11's???

I also understand about this all too well. You don't wanna have to say.........
woulda, shoulda, coulda but with a little more time to think things things out the decision will be easier cause at this point in time the disappointment makes it tough to think clearly.

Hang in there Paul and keep us updated.

Later
Grady

Numbles · Apr 22, 2005

Killer. Your PM box is full. I had a questoins about bellhousing indexing.

BTW, I have the stock shortblock out of my 95. Ill get rid of it cheap if your interested.

Sorry to hear about it thought. Im sure you'll be able to get everything sorted out before the end of the race season.

Joes95GT · Apr 22, 2005

Damn Paul! Forgive me for being late, but I didn't even know there was a new best! As you can tell, I haven't been around much.

I remember that we've had many discussions about you still using the stock AFR valvesprings in this combo, and many (including myself) thought that was strange. However, had you been using the "better" valve springs, I don't think anything different would have happened - things got too extreme too quick....

I didn't read any of the responses so forgive me if I'm being redundant...

If I were in your shoes, I would pull the entire motor and break it apart...

There was an EXTREME shock to the rods and pistons that occured when you downshifted. This, I'm sure, is very obvious to you. Some things you may have over looked are how the pins and rod bearings were trying to actually be pulled or cocked out of their bores - kind of like forcing a square peg into a round hole. Something has got to give. Piston pin holes could have been elongated and so could have the big ends of the rods.

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news. I just don't want to see something catastrophic happen because of a mistake you've (seemingly) gotten out of. I'll hang around and see what happens. If there is anything I can do, you know where to find me.

Good luck!

Joe

zenboy99 · Apr 22, 2005

Paul, sorry to hear about everything, its time to start collecting aluminum cans, donating plasma, and consuming only popcorn.

FYI, Ed also grinds his cams to have a very close piston to valve clearance at 30 degrees, from what I've been told by other people.

YEAHLOH95 · Apr 22, 2005

that realyl sucks but i know it will all work out and it will go 11's

Black95GTS · Apr 22, 2005

I'm with Striped on this one. You gotta get that damn slip with 11.xx. With that setup. There's no point in changing anything to blast into the 11s at this point. Hell if all you wanted was to do that you could have just sprayed the damn thing years ago.

You gotta pay to play, and its your turn again... sucks but at least you have money and can save it, and not living in a ****ty college apt subsisting on mac and cheese, cereal, and PB and J.

- silver lining

super302 · Apr 22, 2005

Black95GTS said:
Hell if all you wanted was to do that you could have just sprayed the damn thing years ago.

I'm pretty sure he wants 11's N/A

cobra dave · Apr 22, 2005

Damn I'm sorry to here that man. You know just as well as I do that things will work out though, they always do.

tmoss · Apr 23, 2005

I was thinking along the same lines as Troy. Might want to have the valve guides checked too, that one piston has a lot of carbon on it. Minimize your cost to repair it right, put it back together as-is and go get that 11 - then enjoy.

NIN · Apr 23, 2005

If I were in your position I would get her back on the road. I just worried that your tranny took more beating than it could handle. It is a vert, she was meant for cruising.

Then I would get her into 11's when the money comes to get the slip. But the best Idea I think is to enjoy her on the road. What whould you drive it you got rid of her.

Hope it turns out,
Tom

zenboy99 · Apr 23, 2005

He's got a TKO transmission, I'm sure its fine. All of my Mustang friends are running that transmission and have been doing much worse things to it then that without any problems

sn94gt. · Apr 24, 2005

Paul,

Man sorry to hear,i know what you was counting on for a long time,heck,your the guy who sold me on getting AFR's.

As with me and the cash(It only took me 2 years after you sold me on getting the heads),step back and take your time with the decision and get that motor checked from oil pan up to make sure your older bottom end is ok,which i know your getting oil under the nails doing that now.I know with you it will all come back together at the end(that is at the end of the track)

But my opinion is,now go for a stroker and shoot for 10's.

chefster · Apr 24, 2005

lookks to me you stretched you exhaustvalves by a near meltdown, you could be good with just valves,and a job on the heads,I am gonna guess the exhaust guides are a little toasty,the pistons are probably fine except for the looks.

Rootus · Apr 24, 2005

That really sucks, Paul!!!

I think you should keep going . Might as well rebuild the shortblock. Might as well stroke it while you're at it. Might as well convert the 165's to 185's when you fix 'em. Might as well add some boost. Might as well...

Ooops. Sorry.

I'm really impressed with what you've accomplished with your Mustang. I'd kill for an 11 second slip ... in my Cobra, with slicks, I still couldn't do it. You are in Bob Cosby territory with your '95.

Dave

CBZGT50 · Apr 24, 2005

Paul,

I see many cheap things there that you can do to get that back on the road. It may not be in the 11 sec club for a while, but pull the pistons and replace them and the wrist pins, check the rod bearings, rent a valve spring compressor if you don't have one and get the valves checked for straightness, and inspect the valve seats for extra wear. After that, I would put it back together, and drive it as a street car until you can afford a crate stroker to put the AFR's on. Otherwise, the Mustang addiction will drive you crazy all summer, especially if you go to WFC or the weekly drags. I couldn't bear to be without my Cobra at all. I had my tranny out last week getting the flywheel and clutch straightened out and I was lucky to have my GSX-R to ride. But now I am happy to be driving again and love the sound of my motor.

All in all, I think you can get it back together with minimal funds. Hell put on a santa suit and go ring a bell at the grocery store. Good luck

Chris

I went 12.03 and then this happened... (BIG DUW!)

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