i'm fearing the gear......reassurance needed

RaceDvr50 · Jun 9, 2006

Yeah I knew that there would be plenty of guys that would say go as high as you like but frankly I can rolling at will bust the tires loose up to 30 without clutching and I have 3.55's the speed limits around here are 70 so I drive 80 and I don't want the engine spinning up all the time. The car will be in the 12's N/A this year anyway so as a slight trade off in mileage and longevity of my motor I'll stay 3.55's but hey everyone has their thing.

fiveoho · Jun 9, 2006

RaceDvr50 said:
Yeah I knew that there would be plenty of guys that would say go as high as you like but frankly I can rolling at will bust the tires loose up to 30 without clutching and I have 3.55's the speed limits around here are 70 so I drive 80 and I don't want the engine spinning up all the time. The car will be in the 12's N/A this year anyway so as a slight trade off in mileage and longevity of my motor I'll stay 3.55's but hey everyone has their thing.

yours a DD?

5spd GT · Jun 9, 2006

Grn92LX said:
I completly agree

Some people just need to take the tampon out of their pus sy and stop being a girl! (This is a general statement directed at no one in this thread)

I swapped from 373's to 430's in my street car. The difference around town driving wasn't huge. The highway rpm's are fine. The car has seen a lot of highway since the gear swap. It rev's between 2300 and 2700 depending how fast I go.

A 355 to 390 swap won't be a big difference. You'll rev like 200 more rpm's on the highway. But more importantly you'll cross the traps at a better rpm.

Is your car a daily driver?

LOL.

5spd GT · Jun 9, 2006

Since you have another daily driver, get the 3:90's.

Grn92lx has a daily driver and it isn't his "street car" that he talks about.

I have drove 4:30's and 2:73's and everywhere in between.

If you see highway mph (70mph and up)...I like to keep it at 2,400rpm and down.

On the "gas mileage" concept about selling it and getting a hybrid, nope, it isn't that simple. Some can't afford two cars, some want to drive a stang everyday. I would rather get 20mpg than 2mpg...would you not? Every little bit helps add up to what you want. Think about that...

I'm going to post some info on what gears can and can't give you. More less, pros & cons

I would stick with FMS gears (better production tolerances - less whine/shimming).

Go with 373's or 3:55’s on a daily driver (that is my suggestion)...I'll put some info for your gear selection decision. If your worried about "hurting" anything the 373's will technically be better for you over the 410's...

373’s will be more daily driver friendly and if you get boost/nitrous later you won't run out of gear at the track and you will have less traction problems. Some that have actually had both gears were slower at the track with 410's over 373's and some also claimed no seat of the pants difference.

I run 2400 rpm at 70mph (I have 373's)…the 410’s will run higher closer to the 2600-2700rpm range with the 245/50/16’s I have on my car.

Here is how I look at when picking gears for a daily driver...To me the gearing of 410's or steeper on a daily driver is not worth it to me...you get worse gas mileage/more engine wear/and use your shifting components more (clutch/trans/etc)...around town...and I also look at it like this...when your cruising on the highway at 80mph (interstate) your cruising at roughly 3000rpm with 410's...that is HALF your 302's revving capabilities and that is in the overdrived 5th gear at CRUISE...not at WOT...I personally don't like the idea of having half the engines revving capabilities at just cruise. Also...what if an emergency comes up and you got to "get it"...you have to be there for someone or are running to the hospital...and running higher than 80mph...maybe running 4500rpm steadily (faster than 80mph of course)...during that emergency I don't think that would be a good time for your engine to let go on you...what do you think?

Then you have to factor in 410's or steeper cause my engine braking at higher rpms on the highway...go pull out somewhere and hold your car to 2500rpm or so (worse with gears) and feel the engine try to slow you down when you let off the gas...same similar occurance happens on the highway/interstate plus the wind resistance.

I know when I had the slipping clutch problem I could smell the clutch burn at a higher rpm cruise which in my case was comparing 2000rpm to 2500rpm. At the lower rpm I didn’t smell it but the higher rpm I could smell it. Just some things to think about when you think you want every little tenth out of your car (4:10’s)…I prefer a better overall performance personally…

Go 373's...I would rather want more (373's to 410's) than get to much (410's) and want less (373's)...get what I'm saying?

There will also be less drivetrain shock under traction with 373's over 410's...

The problem with 410's in an AOD is you only have 3 gears to work with at the track (effective gears anyways) and the gears will get you out of those gears quicker and you could lose your gearing powerband at the track.

Also if they were to convert to a t5 (pretty popular actually) then they are "stuck" with the higher revving 410's...I hate the "winding out" sound on the highway with a gear like that...

On the listing of "pros/cons" of a mod like gears. I have stressed that in a couple choice threads, for example on shorty vs. longtube headers. Longtubes will get a better midranging power over the shortys (so the pro is more power) but some forget to mention the cons of it which are buying a matching mid-pipe (more money and aren't able to use the stock mid-pipe) along with ground clearance issues (especially on a lower car) and also the difficulty of install is "stepped up" quite a bit when trying to get longtubes in. It also can cause heat-soak issues and steering column clearance/rubbing issues. The potential purchaser has to ask themself is the extra midrange worth it? Then you get your answer...

So I ask...are the 410's (a tenth or two quicker at track to a matched combo over 373's) worth it? (more engine/drivetrain wear/worse gas mileage/and a couple other "cons" listed above in my post)...again the potential driver/purchaser has got to ask themselves what they want

willys1 (member on this site) actually was slower at the track in his bolt-on car with 410's than he was with 373's...

To often people go "drive" a friend's car with gears and go have fun in the car and don't drive it normally or thing of longterm effects with normal driving. They often just use their SOTP meter to determine what gear they want but when a final gear ratio effects all different parts of you and your car...I think it is best to not try a gear ratio "drag strip style" but "daily driver style"...

I have rode and drove in every car except one with 4:56’s and I see easily how the 4:10’s and especially 4:30’s are overkill for a daily driver. One trip on the interstate will let you know…

Also on the 200rpm difference (I actually think it is a bit more) but to put that into perspective since I ride at 2400rpm at 70mph I run 2600rpm at 80mph but that is a "big" difference in the feel of the car. Just as well you will be even more limited with the 410's pushing nearly 3000rpm just at cruise Every time I drive on the interstate with the 373's I just can't imagine having 4:10's…

Again good luck with your choice

JBeezy53 · Jun 9, 2006

For the record I run 3:55s in my car, when I got the gears it was a daily driver, now its not but I am still sticking with the 3:55s.

Foxfan88 · Jun 9, 2006

i daily drive my 3.90s everyday, 20 miles everyday to work and back and around town after that. My car doesnt feel like its revving high, with that higher OD gear in my z spec t5 it sits at 2k at 65, with my old AOD and stock gears, i would spin 1600 at 65.

also it wasnt too bad with the regular t5 i used to have. was around 2200 a little less.

either way u go, it will help

i think a mustang is undergeared BADLY from the factory, sure they are saving gas. but here i something. sometimes i have to drive my grandpas truck, an 02 edge ranger, with a stick.

the thing feels lower geared than my mustang, in every gear. and at 65 its revving past 2500 at on the interstate @75 its around 3k.

they need a lower gear for the truck bc its a 3.0L v6 and doesnt have much power. thats why it has lower gears so it can get up to speed better. and since its its small engine it doesnt use at much gas so it evens out.

now a mustang has more than enough power to get up to speed, even with stock gears. so they use them to keep the rpms down, hence better milage.

so i dont think its a bad thing to gear a stang. I mean its hard to get good milage and better performance at the same time, faster and more radical your car gets, less mileage and streetability goes along with it.

i think if you engine is in tune and properly maintained i wouldnt worry about a little higher revving that comes with a gear swap.

hotrodding around, running at the track. revving to 5k+ b4 shifting creates more wear and tear on the motor than the higher revving on the highway ever will.

5spd GT · Jun 9, 2006

Foxfan - Yep the lower gears are to help out the 3.0L. We aren't driving a 3.0L.

The higher revs are a bit harder so to say on the older cars. New cars have different technology, and will receive less wear.

The steeper gear idea isn't overexaggerated, but it is definetly defended because it does cause higher rpms.

To many go off of driving it for a short time and having fun with it, instead of thinking how it will be for 10's of thousands of miles.

Daily Driver factor > Fun factor for a daily driver.

Foxfan88 · Jun 9, 2006

yeah i c what u are saying, but i dont worry about it now, i dont plan to dd the thing for the rest of my life. my stang is a dd now, i'm 18 and as i grow up its going to slowly turn into a side deal, if i still have it. hopefully.

fiveoho · Jun 10, 2006

5spd GT said:
Since you have another daily driver, get the 3:90's.

Grn92lx has a daily driver and it isn't his "street car" that he talks about.

I have drove 4:30's and 2:73's and everywhere in between.

If you see highway mph (70mph and up)...I like to keep it at 2,400rpm and down.

On the "gas mileage" concept about selling it and getting a hybrid, nope, it isn't that simple. Some can't afford two cars, some want to drive a stang everyday. I would rather get 20mpg than 2mpg...would you not? Every little bit helps add up to what you want. Think about that...

I'm going to post some info on what gears can and can't give you. More less, pros & cons

I would stick with FMS gears (better production tolerances - less whine/shimming).

Go with 373's or 3:55’s on a daily driver (that is my suggestion)...I'll put some info for your gear selection decision. If your worried about "hurting" anything the 373's will technically be better for you over the 410's...

373’s will be more daily driver friendly and if you get boost/nitrous later you won't run out of gear at the track and you will have less traction problems. Some that have actually had both gears were slower at the track with 410's over 373's and some also claimed no seat of the pants difference.

I run 2400 rpm at 70mph (I have 373's)…the 410’s will run higher closer to the 2600-2700rpm range with the 245/50/16’s I have on my car.

Here is how I look at when picking gears for a daily driver...To me the gearing of 410's or steeper on a daily driver is not worth it to me...you get worse gas mileage/more engine wear/and use your shifting components more (clutch/trans/etc)...around town...and I also look at it like this...when your cruising on the highway at 80mph (interstate) your cruising at roughly 3000rpm with 410's...that is HALF your 302's revving capabilities and that is in the overdrived 5th gear at CRUISE...not at WOT...I personally don't like the idea of having half the engines revving capabilities at just cruise. Also...what if an emergency comes up and you got to "get it"...you have to be there for someone or are running to the hospital...and running higher than 80mph...maybe running 4500rpm steadily (faster than 80mph of course)...during that emergency I don't think that would be a good time for your engine to let go on you...what do you think?

Then you have to factor in 410's or steeper cause my engine braking at higher rpms on the highway...go pull out somewhere and hold your car to 2500rpm or so (worse with gears) and feel the engine try to slow you down when you let off the gas...same similar occurance happens on the highway/interstate plus the wind resistance.

I know when I had the slipping clutch problem I could smell the clutch burn at a higher rpm cruise which in my case was comparing 2000rpm to 2500rpm. At the lower rpm I didn’t smell it but the higher rpm I could smell it. Just some things to think about when you think you want every little tenth out of your car (4:10’s)…I prefer a better overall performance personally…

Go 373's...I would rather want more (373's to 410's) than get to much (410's) and want less (373's)...get what I'm saying?

There will also be less drivetrain shock under traction with 373's over 410's...

The problem with 410's in an AOD is you only have 3 gears to work with at the track (effective gears anyways) and the gears will get you out of those gears quicker and you could lose your gearing powerband at the track.

Also if they were to convert to a t5 (pretty popular actually) then they are "stuck" with the higher revving 410's...I hate the "winding out" sound on the highway with a gear like that...

On the listing of "pros/cons" of a mod like gears. I have stressed that in a couple choice threads, for example on shorty vs. longtube headers. Longtubes will get a better midranging power over the shortys (so the pro is more power) but some forget to mention the cons of it which are buying a matching mid-pipe (more money and aren't able to use the stock mid-pipe) along with ground clearance issues (especially on a lower car) and also the difficulty of install is "stepped up" quite a bit when trying to get longtubes in. It also can cause heat-soak issues and steering column clearance/rubbing issues. The potential purchaser has to ask themself is the extra midrange worth it? Then you get your answer...

So I ask...are the 410's (a tenth or two quicker at track to a matched combo over 373's) worth it? (more engine/drivetrain wear/worse gas mileage/and a couple other "cons" listed above in my post)...again the potential driver/purchaser has got to ask themselves what they want

willys1 (member on this site) actually was slower at the track in his bolt-on car with 410's than he was with 373's...

To often people go "drive" a friend's car with gears and go have fun in the car and don't drive it normally or thing of longterm effects with normal driving. They often just use their SOTP meter to determine what gear they want but when a final gear ratio effects all different parts of you and your car...I think it is best to not try a gear ratio "drag strip style" but "daily driver style"...

I have rode and drove in every car except one with 4:56’s and I see easily how the 4:10’s and especially 4:30’s are overkill for a daily driver. One trip on the interstate will let you know…

Also on the 200rpm difference (I actually think it is a bit more) but to put that into perspective since I ride at 2400rpm at 70mph I run 2600rpm at 80mph but that is a "big" difference in the feel of the car. Just as well you will be even more limited with the 410's pushing nearly 3000rpm just at cruise Every time I drive on the interstate with the 373's I just can't imagine having 4:10's…

Again good luck with your choice

wow, thanks for the book

seriously tho, thanks for all the insight. i know theres alot of mixed feelings on gear choices. but i do think since mine isnt a DD and i dont do interstate driving, i think i will be ok. lots to consider tho in what all you typed

fiveoho · Jun 10, 2006

preciate all the comments. keep them coming

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jun 10, 2006

For what it's worth....here's my $.02

My car is old....21 years old in fact, and the history of my car is probably rougher than 90% of the cars on this forum. It was driven HARD and to my knowledge still has the original '85 engine. The odometer stopped working at 32xxx miles, so i don't know if it's 132k or 232k, as the title just says that the mileage is wrong. I'm not so much worried about that crap because engines can be rebuilt...

Anyways, i run a 4.10 gear with a Tremec 5 speed. Right now i've got temporary tires/rims on my car, and they're SMALL. I don't recall off hand but i'm pretty sure they're around 225/50/R15s all around. Most of you know that small tires will have a similar effect as higher gear ratios...small tires equal more RPMs when you're cruising.

So, with all that in mind, i generally drive my car to work whenever i can afford it since i only run 93-94 octane in it, and gas is rediculous. I get about 16mpg in it, and i cruise the highways right with the flow of traffic at about 23-2500RPM. Granted, i drive a bit slower than i would if i were in my Cherokee, just because i don't like cruising with the RPM higher than 2500, but i'm still passing a good amount of people and i'm right around 70mph.

With taller tires, i'd probably get better mileage, albeit slightly better, and i might even shave a tenth or two off my ET if i could get taller tires that would hook a little. I didn't read all those posts, but generally my opinion of gears are like this....If you've got a LOT of power, something like 350+ at the wheels, then i think your need for higher gears is less for a street car than a racecar might have, because the power will make up for the gear in fun factor. If you have mostly stock engine and want more fun out of your car, more gear will give it to you (like my car....i dyno around 250). With an AOD i don't think i'd want over 3.73 since there aren't many gears to play with....my car had a C4 in it at one time with the 4.10s....it was badass through stoplight traffic but a nightmare on the highways....3k RPM at 60mph.

Oh, and for what it's worth, i don't think i'd ever want more than 4.10s for a car that sees highway driving, UNLESS i could afford to get a T56 with a higher overdrive gear to compensate. I work with a guy who drives a Cobra with 4.30s and he cruises in 6th at about 2200RPM, and his car come out of the hole like a bat out of hell.

fiveoho · Jun 11, 2006

since mines not a DD, im not too concerned about the lower gear being "too hard" in it.

5spd GT · Jun 11, 2006

Exactly, so get the 3:90's...

fiveoho · Jun 11, 2006

dragnazz5.0 · Jun 11, 2006

seems like a lot of people are going to the 3.90 gears now. i know i am, im not really sure why but i am. i figured i didnt want 4.10s and i didnt want 3.73s so i went with 3.90s. now i just have to find time to put them in

fiveoho · Jun 11, 2006

dragnazz5.0 said:
seems like a lot of people are going to the 3.90 gears now. i know i am, im not really sure why but i am. i figured i didnt want 4.10s and i didnt want 3.73s so i went with 3.90s. now i just have to find time to put them in

we think alike

nitrous_bob · Jun 11, 2006

i'm not even gonna go through all the posts.

i run 4.10's and still knock down 21.25 mpg (last time i checked, thats what it was)

the r's are perfect going through the traps, and i can cruise at 80 on the freeway under 3k

all that needs to be said , anything lower than 3.73 is for twin turbo,blower cars, and people who are afraid to go faster than 14's

RaceDvr50 · Jun 12, 2006

nitrous_bob said:
all that needs to be said , anything lower than 3.73 is for twin turbo,blower cars, and people who are afraid to go faster than 14's

I guess my stock block N/A engine just moved up a couple of notches in your book because my 3.55's were running me mid 13's last year and with my new head/intake/header set-up I should be seeing high 12's without a problem this year.

greenstang1313 · Jul 7, 2006

dragnazz5.0 said:
seems like a lot of people are going to the 3.90 gears now. i know i am, im not really sure why but i am. i figured i didnt want 4.10s and i didnt want 3.73s so i went with 3.90s. now i just have to find time to put them in

Ya I'm having 3:90s installed in my cobra on the 15th, next saturday. I just didnt have the balls to do 4:10 and didnt think 3:73s would be enough. I CANT WAIT!!!

fiveoho · Jul 7, 2006

greenstang1313 said:
Ya I'm having 3:90s installed in my cobra on the 15th, next saturday. I just didnt have the balls to do 4:10 and didnt think 3:73s would be enough. I CANT WAIT!!!

let us/me know how you like them when you get them installed

i'm fearing the gear......reassurance needed

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