injector size?

stangbear427 · Dec 3, 2003

Mustang88LXKid said:
Ok, well I have been reading the MM&FF magazine and they tested 185cc AFR heads on a normal 5.0 block that was not stroked and had a carborated setup. (I don't remember the exact issue but I can look it up). But they recomended those heads because they had over 100 horse bolt on with a new oil pan, carb, comp cam. So would I want the 165's instead, because they don't put out the same output as the 185's, but I would like to see your reponses to this.

Thank
Matt

If we're thinking about the same article, that was actually a Ford Performance 333 stroker. Otherwise, it was the 165's, and even that wasn't a normal 302, it was a CHP 306. Even in AFR's add in MM&FF they advertise the 185's on a 393 stroker. Telling ya, get them if you KNOW you are going forced or NOS later (maybe!), but on a NA 302 you'll be dissappointed.

perkys stang · Dec 3, 2003

stangbear427 said:
Won't keep up with what?! They will support over 400HP without raising the fuel pressure from stock. You think he's gonna get anywhere near that NA?

Have you ever done any research? Dyno ? Looked at the duty cycle of a 24lb injector????????

400 N/A at the crank is a cake walk these days

JJFIVEOH · Dec 3, 2003

The 185s need to REV. And if anybody has actually raced, the stock 302 short block can handle 7000 RPMs. In my mind 7000 is pretty high. They only need 24# injectors. It may only put out 350-400, but has anyone actually tried using 24# on a stock motor?

perkys stang · Dec 3, 2003

JJFIVEOH said:
The 185s need to REV. And if anybody has actually raced, the stock 302 short block can handle 7000 RPMs. In my mind 7000 is pretty high. They only need 24# injectors. It may only put out 350-400, but has anyone actually tried using 24# on a stock motor?

7000 maybe on a factory tach but I wouldn't push a completely stock 302 bottom end to that RPM...

What does a stock motor and 24's have to do with his combo?

stangbear427 · Dec 3, 2003

It has to do with this is a stock bottom end he's talking about. A mediocre cam, oversized heads and a blower intake on a NA, unstroked motor. Granted, it is always better to err on the side of caution. With injectors, it's better to be a step larger then you need at a lower pressure than a step lower than you need and higher presure b ut either way if 24# er's don't keep up with what's on his list, something else is wrong.

Michael Yount · Dec 3, 2003

If he builds it the to get the reasonable daily driver he said he wanted originally - the 24's will be fine (along with 165's and long-runner intake). If he builds a high-revving "beach" with 185's and spyder intake - I believe I'd go with the 30's; I think that motor will outrun the 24's. But I don't think he'll be happy with that motor.

Mustang88LXKid · Dec 3, 2003

hmm thanks for the advice. But I got the AFR guide and 185's get peak power only a little higher than the 165s. for 185's 1500 RPM's to 6500 RPMs, which isnt really to bad. The 165's get peak at anything to 6000 RPMs. So if this helps any of you. This is the information i have gotten on my own.

Michael Yount · Dec 3, 2003

AFR's generic guide isn't going to be as helpful to you as you think. You've got a lot of folks out here who have a lot of experience with these things which you can take advantage of if you choose to. One way or the other, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Good luck with whatever you decide.

perkys stang · Dec 3, 2003

Like I have been saying have you ever datalogged or watched the duty cyle of a 24 lb injector on a motor makeing any kind of power...

Example... GT40 headed , Zcam motor... 24lb injectors.. enough injector right? Wrong..

With this combo while tuning the injectors were maxed out before 5500 RPM.. This was with 45lbs of fuel pressure..

Wanna guess which ones I use?

I think you can live with the 185's but the spyder has got to go for a street car... Get the RPMII or somehting it will make killer power.. My unported Holley made power to 7200 with no problem and no loss of tq...

JJFIVEOH · Dec 3, 2003

I wasnt aware that it was daily driven. Even so, the 185s wont take away that much low end torque and you can still keep the 24#s.....

Michael Yount · Dec 4, 2003

Don't know what to tell you Perks - there are guys out there pushing well over 325-350 crank HP on the 19# injectors at pressures not too much more than stock with a/f ratios where they should be - indicating that the motors not running out of injector. I think part of the problem is that all injectors are not created equal. When flow tested, many 19's actually are capable of 21-22; I suspect the same up-side error occurs with some of the larger injectors too. For street cars I think the smallest injector that will get the job done should be used as the vast majority of the time you're asking the injector to function at the other end of the duty cycle scale - barely open; and the smaller injector does a better job of accurately metering small amounts of fuel than the larger one does. For the incredibly small amount of time my car (most street cars too I believe) actually spends at full throttle, I don't mind asking the injector to work pretty close to it's full duty cycle. I think this is one where we just see it differently. If I had a dedicated racer, yes, I'd go up to the next size injector to be certain; but not on a my daily driver - which is what this fellow said he wanted to build.

stangbear427 · Dec 4, 2003

Yeah, that was pretty much my take on it. I can see where Perk is coming from though- if his avitar is any indication, his injectors probably spend most of their life at WOT. Not necessarily applicable, talking about Z cams and whatnot when Kid specifically said no crazy camming and pretty much minor bolt ons. On the other hand, he still sounds like he's insisting on the 185's- so I have a feeling this project is going to get a lot more serious pretty quick after it's been together awhile, if not sooner...

Mustang88LXKid · Dec 4, 2003

today I called CHP about all of this. They now carry AFR heads, the man I talked to told me he has a 5.0 daily driver and put in 185's and says its fine and he didn't lose and low end power. I also asked him about the spyder, he says that setup is fine and I won't lose any low end power. There's 2 different spyder intake manifolds too, I think some of you are thinking of the Super Spyder, which is for drag (I believe they used the super one in MM & FF). But they have Spyder manifold for the street. I'm now thinking about adding a CHP 331 stroker to the mix (1299.99, forged steel crank and forged steel pistons, all the rest of the kit), if I can get the funds together.....

I'm not insisting but I've made this combo idea, I just want to see the input you have.

TIMMY2734 · Dec 4, 2003

Mustang88LXKid said:
today I called CHP about all of this. They now carry AFR heads, the man I talked to told me he has a 5.0 daily driver and put in 185's and says its fine and he didn't lose and low end power. I also asked him about the spyder, he says that setup is fine and I won't lose any low end power. QUOTE]

Of course the tech at CHP will push for the spyder, because you are the consumer. He really doesnt care what you buy, just as long as you buy it from them. Take the advice and dont get the Spyder for your daily driver. Youd be much happier with soemthing liek the Edelbrock RPM or similar.

JJFIVEOH · Dec 4, 2003

I don't want to say I told you so.............

stangbear427 · Dec 4, 2003

Mustang88LXKid said:
today I called CHP about all of this... I'm now thinking about adding a CHP 331 stroker to the mix (1299.99, forged steel crank and forged steel pistons, all the rest of the kit), if I can get the funds together.....

I'm not insisting but I've made this combo idea, I just want to see the input you have.

My input is that that's the best idea you've proposed in this thread yet. And for another $.02: I would recommend the 185's with that motor. I never said they wouldn't work on a normal 302, just that it's A LOT of money to spend on something that won't make a bit of difference- when 165's and a FTI cam with a Performer RPM intake would slap you with and extra 100HP+ easily.

JJFIVEOH · Dec 4, 2003

If you are investing $$$$ already to buy aluminum heads, why not get the 185s? It's not going to hurt you but it will help you in the long run if you ever make any changes.

NoSloCoupes · Dec 4, 2003

Perky, you probably making 430-445hp at the crank....isn't that within range of what i hear 24# injectors will support.

I'm about to pull my 30's and t-rex to go back to 24's so i'll be faster,lol.

Spyderd68 · Dec 4, 2003

Call or check X2C Motorsports about a stroker motor, their prices cant be beat. They were very helpful to me when i was looking to buy a stroker motor.

http://www.x2cmotorsports.com/

Dave

86Cobra · Dec 5, 2003

AFR 185s kill low end torque. Yeah right. More inexperienced internet wisdom at work.

BTW, I recently stepped up to 36 lb injectors in my NA 306.

Also, ditch the spyder. CHP just wants to sell you their crap. You'll be much happier with a Holley or RPM II.

injector size?

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