Intake Manifold Revenge Round II

[Makdaddymac]

hey all,
well i got my intake manifold on and it seems im not leaking this time, but i really cant get the car to idle or run,,,,,,
i can keep it running at 1500-2k w/ the pedal down but it wont idle for nothing....

i don't know if its the timing, or something vacuum...my vacuum set up is definately not factory, i have everthing hooked up but things are a lil different than oem

it also smokes now.... a nice white smoke

im seriously fed up...

 

[Darkwriter77]

Still sounds like an intake leak. White smoke usually = water vapor and/or coolant blowing out your exhaust. If you can't even get it to hold idle, then you likely have a HUGE vacuum leak. Apparently, the gasket didn't get seated right somehow, or something like a wire loom or something got pinched between the intake manifold and its gasket/mating surface, thus creating a gap for air/coolant to suck in.

Sorry, you might need to tear it down and re-do it yet again to fix it...

 

[MikeROD16]

if you have SD, them try checking your MAP sensor for any leaks or mismatched vacuum lines. happened to me.

 

[Makdaddymac]

im sorry but its not leaking from the manifold.......at least not the lower one, the ground underneath has no water dripping......the smoke has kind of cleared and it has a black tint in it???

and it will idle, playing with the timing helped but i cant get it better, it sound like it has the hardest cam evr made.... its looping from 500 to 1k back to 500 then to 1k if i open the tb plate a tad it will idle perfect, but the screw cant adjust no more? i was thinking the shape of the manifold or measurement has a different length on the cable so its not right, but again i cant make the screw go any further cause the spring is fully tighetned on the adjuster screw......

i unplugg the pip connector, adjust the timing to 10-12 degrees, turned the car off, then plug it back in, no real change in anything.......i might be messing up the timing..i have two white marks and im going by the bottom one.......

also about the MAP sensor this is possible,explain more?

 

[jhonda]

I had the same problem turned out I some plug wires in the wrong place and a pinched vaccume line.

 

[Darkwriter77]

If your intake was sucking coolant, you wouldn't see any spilling onto the ground - that's what the white smoke would be coming from the exhaust.

Black smoke usually means it's running pig-rich. Blue smoke usually means it's burning oil. And yellow, red, or green smoke usually means someone put a smoke bomb or something like that in your tailpipes.

Still sounds like a vacuum issue - I agree, check the MAP sensor vacuum line connection(s) and perhaps the sensor, itself - but it could also be possible that you've got the dizzy stapped in there 180* out. You may want to put Cylinder #1 at TDC and make sure the dizzy rotor's pointing to that plug wire tower on the cap to verify that it didn't get installed backwards.

EDIT: You might wanna see about having this moved to 5.0 Tech where you might get more feedback on it.

 

[Makdaddymac]

darkwriter, thanks for all the help man but im not pulling that sob off again, im sorry, but i couldnt have done it wrong this time, and it turn out that my old leaks could have just been coming from the egr coolant supply fitting not being tight enough into the manifold(i forgot to update you guys on that, i had a water leak again, but my uncle took of that fitting put some thread tape around it instead of silicon and tightened it way further down then i did and i didnt have no more drip) if its sucking coolant wont the oil be a funky milky/green color???

i doubt its the wires wrong, cause it runs smooth up to the redline, no misses or anything,,,,could the smoke just be some stuff be burned out?

my guess is timing or vacuum.....if its the manifold leaking,well does anyone want a rust free 88gt with mods mentioned in my sig??????lol

 

[Makdaddymac]

well guys there really is no abnormal white smoke, or none at all..... but i still am getting black smoke at 4K plus,,,, and guess what, my map sensor didnt have a vacuum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no hose, i have to split something and run a hose back there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so once that is set shouldnt the rich smoke vanish????
i have no leaks and the thing was idling with an adjusted idle screw, i drove it like down the street and it felt like a big gain!!!!!!!!!! and im still probably not timed right....

anyways i had a hose that was too big: running to the map and to the brace that the b/b is on, just ot see if it would do anything, it was leaky but at least it was a vacumm and it seemed the black smoke calmed down a lil, and my idle was changed,but it was idling good.....

 

[Darkwriter77]

DO NOT touch the idle screw! Idle on EFI motors should be left to being controlled by the IAC valve and ECM - it comes from the factory with a cap over it for a reason. Tampering with the idle screw to try to compensate for something else being wrong will just make your troubles even more difficult to resolve by adding yet another variable to the problem. Only time you should feel a need to fiddle with that is if you have a hardcore aftermarket cam and need to raise the idle to keep your vacuum at an acceptable level.

As far as coolant and oil mixing, you're likely confusing symptoms of a head gasket with an intake gasket. Coolant does pass through the intake manifold, as well as air, but not oil; cylinder heads have both oil AND coolant passages, thus when a head gasket blows, it can get oil in the water, or water in the oil, and/or coolant in the combustion chamber.

If you have an intake manifold leak, it's possible to have a leak where you could be sucking air (thus a vacuum leak) and/or sucking coolant into the intake and then on down into the heads and combustion chambers. Also, it's possible to have a manifold leak where it's dribbling onto the valley of the motor (under the intake, on top of the block), and it could just be evaporating before having a chance to drool on the ground. But if it was leaking badly enough to cause the problems you've described, there would probably be enough coolant coming out that you'd be seeing it dripping down somewhere.

Another possibility would be a cracked intake manifold. If something got tightened down a bit too hard and/or in the wrong sequence, you might have a crack somewhere sucking air and/or coolant. Most likely it's just sucking air, if it's not blowing white smoke now and you're sure that it's not losing coolant.

Again, before you go that far, though, check and double-check all of your vacuum lines and connections. Rubber vacuum hose is cheap - replace anything that isn't new and/or looks even remotely suspect. Then, if you really don't want to tear off the intake again and/or don't see any signs of cracking (I don't blame ya', it's a PITA), then maybe consider swapping out the MAP sensor - see if someone's got one you could borrow for testing purposes, or if you can afford one, buy a new one and (if it doesn't fix it) just keep the old one on hand as a backup spare.

 

[Makdaddymac]

well guys there really is no abnormal white smoke, or none at all..... but i still am getting black smoke at 4K plus,,,, and guess what, my map sensor didnt have a vacuum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no hose, i have to split something and run a hose back there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so once that is set shouldnt the rich smoke vanish????
i have no leaks and the thing was idling with an adjusted idle screw, i drove it like down the street and it felt like a big gain!!!!!!!!!! and im still probably not timed right....

anyways i had a hose that was too big: running to the map and to the brace that the b/b is on, just ot see if it would do anything, it was leaky but at least it was a vacumm and it seemed the black smoke calmed down a lil, and my idle was changed,but it was idling good.....

darkwriter, im sorry not the the cap thing just the little screw that messes with the thorrtle mechanism,the actual thing that move the tb plate( conencted to the cable)
also my map didnt have a vaccum at all it was not hooked up(i forgot about it)
and im only getting black smoke at wot........and it will idle good now......

 

[MikeROD16]

make sure your FPR is running ok. basically check any electronics that might go bad.

 

[Darkwriter77]

darkwriter, im sorry not the the cap thing just the little screw that messes with the thorrtle mechanism,the actual thing that move the tb plate( conencted to the cable)
also my map didnt have a vaccum at all it was not hooked up(i forgot about it)
and im only getting black smoke at wot........and it will idle good now......

Ah. Yeah, not having a vacuum line hooked to the MAP sensor will do that to ya'.

Again, DO NOT tamper with the idle screw. This isn't a carb'ed motor, it doesn't need adjusting. Trust me. It'll do ya' no good, mon. If you're still having idle troubles, keep hunting vacuum leaks, clean your grounds, and/or clean or replace the IAC valve.

Black smoke = running rich.

Are you running an adjustible FPR, or the stock vacuum-controlled one? If stock, check the vacuum line running to/from it. Perhaps consider replacing the FPR with an adjustable, if it's stock, along with a fuel pressure gauge - a worthwhile upgrade to have, regardless.

 

[Makdaddymac]

yah im going to do some vacuum hose replacment, i was just making do with what i had to make this thing run and see if i was still leaking at the manifold/heads....

it will idle good actually and no smoke, except the black at wot.......
which you guys say will ahppen without a map:if so i should be good aftre i get some proper vacuum and new hoses going.......also i am running the stock FPR,.

also about the white smoke, i think it was just burning stuff out, plus wouldnt the type of coolant suck your talking about make "steam" that would disapear fast vs "smoke" that makes clouds? cause it made a cloud, kind of like seafoaming but not that serious

 

[Darkwriter77]

Meh ... sorta. I've been behind people on the road who look like they had either just blown a head gasket, or they were deliberately driving the holy piss out of their car until it physically refused to go any farther. The thick white smoke was gaggishly sweet with the smell of coolant (I think it was a Taurus), and it did kind of linger like most other forms of exhaust smoke. If you just got a quick white puff of smoke upon startup, or maybe for the first 30 seconds, it was probably either condensation in the exhaust from regular combustion, or maybe you had something in the intake tracts that got slurped through and spat out after running a little bit.

Either way, if it's not doing it now and your exhaust doesn't stink of coolant, I think you're fine.

 

[skunk21]

I would do like the others said, verify no vacuum leaks!! vacuum leaks drive the 5.0 nuts. verify your timing, bring #1 up TDC put your thumb or rag over the spark plug hole to feel the pressure when she comes up on compression. check the pointer on the dizzy move it if needed to get it pinting at #1. then check you timing with a light when the car is normal operating temp..not cold.

If the car was burning the coolant in good amounts you would get a white or a light cloud at idle that would get bigger with more throttle if the leak ws big enough, also the exhaust would have a sweet smell to it. you could have had some coolant that got down into the combustion chamber and burned up at start up.

check and recheck all your wires(even spark plug wires) vacuum lines etc. on any project, it's very easy to miss one. If you have your idle out of wak you will have problems but try giving your IAC a good cleaning and by some MAF cleaner and spray the heck out of it never hurts to clean those items. best of luck.

 

[jrichker]

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical

If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see EQUUS DIGITAL FORD CODE READER (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.

 

[Makdaddymac]

alright im gonna pull some codes, but i luckliy was given like the first ACTRON scanner for these 5.0ls its huge and only has a blinking red light, it probably reatiled for like a thousand dollars back in 88....

although i have never got code 11(aka. system working) on any of my 5.0 cars

 

[Makdaddymac]

hey guys, haven't been able to do anything on the car, its raining.
so i haven't pulled codes or played with getting a vacuum for the map
.....................

but i did fire it up real quick and guess what, it started up with a off idle(not horrible) again, but i dont have a vacuum at the MAP yet either, i was more concerned with the smoke and it didnt smoke at idle or cold crank but i let it run for like a minute and bleeped the throttle to a lil under 3k and it smoked........
GOOD OL WHITE(w/black) and did smell funky.......

so my question is,
i know i need to change the oil, and i need to do a radiator flush, but is it possible that a dirty radiator or anything not involving a manifold job could casue smoke, it really hasnt been ran hard or anything,
and my vacuum to the MAP is not connected?

 

[Darkwriter77]

The radiator has nothing to do with what comes out of your tailpipes ... unless, of course, it's so plugged or undersized that the coolant boils over and you blow a head gasket and/or seize the motor.

I'm really hopin' for your sake it isn't a head gasket. I'd hate for both of us BOTH to have to go through the same PITA to solve our cars' problems...

 

[Makdaddymac]

well codes 34 and 67
i cant get a KOER test for some reason, maybe the t-5 swap did something...???
again no smoke at idle but at a throttle bleep i get whitish smoke, still seeing some black, but the smoke is exhaust/fuel smelling.
im really in denial of it being a head gasket, a intake gasket would be a but both a another head gasket and intake job would make me ....
the weather still isnt permiting me to work on it today im going to go buy coolant hose to use as vacuum since the vacuum line at atuo zone is so thin and flimsy and doesnt look like it would last longer than day

I GUESS I NEED TO FACE THE MUSIC: THERE IS no real ecu or tune issue that is going to give me smoke huh?