Is A Head, Cam And Vortech Safe On A Stock Bottom?

[slayerripkdc]

Still not 100% sure if I am going to keep the 2v or not but If I decide to keep I want to have some real fun lol. I am eventually going to be running a Vortech. Most likely a v1 and was wondering if I add a set of trickflow heads and some cams will that be to much for the bottom end? Under safe conditions will it be able to put down 450ish safe on a dyno jet?

 

[musclemustangcb]

Yes,yes,and yes! You wont have a probably hitting 450hp. The heads and cams will make a big difference. I run ported pi heads, mhs blower cams and a v2 s trim. I make 500rwhp. If u ran 10psi with those mods you'd hit 450, heads might not even be necessary, just came. I know a Guy with a v2 running same came as me and 11psi, he pulled 517 out on a dyno jet .not safe with stock internals. 450 on stock internals will be a borrowed time situation.

 

[trinity_gt]

450rwHP with any combination is ragged edge on stock bottom-end 2v.

 

[slayerripkdc]

Would it be wiser to keep the heads and cams stock and just build the bottom with the vortech? Run maybe 14-16lbs with built bottom and stock topend?

 

[trinity_gt]

The real problem is the stock powdered metal rods and cast pistons in the OE shortblock. You can get to critical power levels with the stock heads and cams with a blower at 10-12 psi. Putting on expensive aftermarket heads and cams won't allow you to produce any more power because of this.

If you build the bottom you can go ahead and put on the heavy-breathing stuff to make all the power your fuel system, chassis, transmission, axle and tires can handle.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I think 450rwhp with the stock bottom end is going to get ugly in a hurry, personally. I'd consider talking yourself into being content with the stock 370-390rwhp that the base 8psi Vortech kit puts out, or start saving for a built short block.

You may bet away with it (some have) but most end up walking home. All it takes is one bad batch of gas.

 

[sneaky98gt]

Honestly, it depends on the tune. There's quite a big difference in making 450 rwhp on stock heads/cams with 12+ psi and making 450 rwhp on Trickflow stuff at only 8 psi. Typically, the killer of these engines is DETONATION, not excessive power. Come to think of it, I can't think of ever hearing of just a rod going through the side of the block. It's ALWAYS "yea, I had some detonation and popped a ring/piston/rod". That's what happened when my motor let go last year. To only make 450 with the Trickflow, it will have to be very de-tuned (read: very rich and not much timing), which is inherently going to be safer. That doesn't mean that you can't create a new window in the side of your block, but I feel it's much less likely. Granted it was with a turbo, but tank_567 was making north of 500 rwhp for a good while (and racing regularly with it) before his motor let go. And it was the oil pump of all things that failed on his car.

Out of curiosity, how much power does your car make now and what's the fastest car you've owned?

 

[trinity_gt]

The big problem I would have with making 450 "easy" rwHP with a stock bottom end and a high-flow top-end is that, if the bottom end does let go, there's a very good chance one or both of these expensive new heads would be damaged too by shrapnel impacts...

 

[Kornnut]

For the cost of the trick flow set up(heads and cams) you could have a short block built.

 

[trombonedemon]

For the cost of the trick flow set up(heads and cams) you could have a short block built.

For sure; would rather have a built short-block then all the TrickFlow cams and Heads....

 

[sneaky98gt]

The big problem I would have with making 450 "easy" rwHP with a stock bottom end and a high-flow top-end is that, if the bottom end does let go, there's a very good chance one or both of these expensive new heads would be damaged too by shrapnel impacts...

Good point. I'm not sure just how damaged it was, but there was some on my set after the ring popped (or at least on the #3 cylinder anyway).

For the cost of the trick flow set up(heads and cams) you could have a short block built.

I was going there with my post, but held back on account of not knowing the OPs experience with higher horsepower cars. For most people, 380 rwhp on a blown, stock motor is PLENTY of power. It is for me, anyway.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

we made over 500hp on a stock teksid shortblock and it did not last long.

get a set of rods and pistons, whats another $1500 when your gonna put out $2000 just for the heads?

Like sneaky said, you will make alot more power at lower boost with the trickflows.

 

[slayerripkdc]

Honestly, it depends on the tune. There's quite a big difference in making 450 rwhp on stock heads/cams with 12+ psi and making 450 rwhp on Trickflow stuff at only 8 psi. Typically, the killer of these engines is DETONATION, not excessive power. Come to think of it, I can't think of ever hearing of just a rod going through the side of the block. It's ALWAYS "yea, I had some detonation and popped a ring/piston/rod". That's what happened when my motor let go last year. To only make 450 with the Trickflow, it will have to be very de-tuned (read: very rich and not much timing), which is inherently going to be safer. That doesn't mean that you can't create a new window in the side of your block, but I feel it's much less likely. Granted it was with a turbo, but tank_567 was making north of 500 rwhp for a good while (and racing regularly with it) before his motor let go. And it was the oil pump of all things that failed on his car.

Out of curiosity, how much power does your car make now and what's the fastest car you've owned?

Good information. As of now the car is pretty much stock. The fastest car I ever owned was a 1990 5.0 with head, cam and intake. Roughly 300 to the wheels. Before some jerk totaled it I got use to the power and it started feeling very slow lol. I drove plenty of 400 wheel horse cars before and I want more than that.

 

[sneaky98gt]

Good information. As of now the car is pretty much stock. The fastest car I ever owned was a 1990 5.0 with head, cam and intake. Roughly 300 to the wheels. Before some jerk totaled it I got use to the power and it started feeling very slow lol. I drove plenty of 400 wheel horse cars before and I want more than that.

Ok, just checking.

In that case, I'd say build the short block before doing the top end. Built short block with stock top end will still make upwards of 500 rwhp.

 

[Kornnut]

Good information. As of now the car is pretty much stock. The fastest car I ever owned was a 1990 5.0 with head, cam and intake. Roughly 300 to the wheels. Before some jerk totaled it I got use to the power and it started feeling very slow lol. I drove plenty of 400 wheel horse cars before and I want more than that.

Are you going to be racing in any form or is it just to spin the rollers on a dyno? Because 400 at the wheels and the ability to hook vs 500 and just spinning could be a wash in price. If you just want to hit say 500 that is cool, but sit down and plan out what you want first.

 

[slayerripkdc]

Are you going to be racing in any form or is it just to spin the rollers on a dyno? Because 400 at the wheels and the ability to hook vs 500 and just spinning could be a wash in price. If you just want to hit say 500 that is cool, but sit down and plan out what you want first.

I go to Englishtown about 1-2 per year. I already have 315-35-17's. Could use some rear upper and lowers I suppose.

 

[fiveohwblow]

Honestly, it depends on the tune. There's quite a big difference in making 450 rwhp on stock heads/cams with 12+ psi and making 450 rwhp on Trickflow stuff at only 8 psi. Typically, the killer of these engines is DETONATION, not excessive power. Come to think of it, I can't think of ever hearing of just a rod going through the side of the block. It's ALWAYS "yea, I had some detonation and popped a ring/piston/rod". That's what happened when my motor let go last year. To only make 450 with the Trickflow, it will have to be very de-tuned (read: very rich and not much timing), which is inherently going to be safer. That doesn't mean that you can't create a new window in the side of your block, but I feel it's much less likely. Granted it was with a turbo, but tank_567 was making north of 500 rwhp for a good while (and racing regularly with it) before his motor let go. And it was the oil pump of all things that failed on his car.

Out of curiosity, how much power does your car make now and what's the fastest car you've owned?

This

 

[Kornnut]

I go to Englishtown about 1-2 per year. I already have 315-35-17's. Could use some rear upper and lowers I suppose.

Sounds like you want to hit a #. There isn't a damn thing wrong with that. I would do the short block and whatever fuel system you can afford.

 

[Kornnut]

Spending another person's money is easy, but if you're not attached to the car a cobra maybe a better platform. Random thoughts.

 

[slayerripkdc]

Spending another person's money is easy, but if you're not attached to the car a cobra maybe a better platform. Random thoughts.

My thoughts exactly! I have been thinking about purchasing a 03-04 Cobra or C5 Zo6 for awhile now. Trying to hold off until after I purchase my house. I need to be patient lol,.