Is there such a thing as a "Factory Freak"?

rsw007 · Oct 18, 2004

25thmustang said:
To add to the fire a bit, my car ran a new best this weekend!!

12.56 @ 106, untuned with a 95,000 mile 1995 short block in it now (old one was making a lot of noise). Added some fuel pressure and gained a mph, but the car didnt hook on that pass and was slower. Cant wait for some 12.4s!

ill be the first to say im jelous

5spd GT · Oct 18, 2004

25thmustang said:
To add to the fire a bit, my car ran a new best this weekend!!

12.56 @ 106, untuned with a 95,000 mile 1995 short block in it now (old one was making a lot of noise). Added some fuel pressure and gained a mph, but the car didnt hook on that pass and was slower. Cant wait for some 12.4s!

Nice

25thmustang · Oct 18, 2004

So if it was a factory freak, then wouldnt this 1995 motor be one as well. Afterall I now have that cars bottem end, crank, rods, pistons, cam, lifters, etc...

I am praying my friend got video of that run, as I was next to a modded Mach 1, but he broke off the line, so its almost like a bye run...

5spd GT · Oct 18, 2004

25thmustang said:
So if it was a factory freak, then wouldnt this 1995 motor be one as well. Afterall I now have that cars bottem end, crank, rods, pistons, cam, lifters, etc...

I am praying my friend got video of that run, as I was next to a modded Mach 1, but he broke off the line, so its almost like a bye run...

Yeah exactly...kind of strange how you got two "factory freak" motors...

Hmm...again it goes back to my good driver and condition of vehicle along with weight...

50-60 horsepower difference is huge...so some 5.0's cam with 210rwhp and some with 150rwhp...both thru a 5spd...hmmm....

Legendary · Oct 18, 2004

Michael Yount said:
Well, I guess we can lead this horse to water, but.....

I'll make him drink. Just give me five minutes.

TrickStang37 · Oct 18, 2004

I dont believe in the "factory freak theory". maybe like 10hp variance or so, and that coupled with weight would definetely make a difference.

25thmustang · Oct 18, 2004

Oh yeah, race weight was 3130!

5spd GT · Oct 18, 2004

Legendary said:
I'll make him drink. Just give me five minutes.

Oh and my race weight is just under 3400lbs

cleanLX · Oct 18, 2004

5spd GT said:
Yeah I know a bad driver and a good driver can make the difference huge...I think cleanlx has got a couple other "tricks" on his car whether big or small...

I've got an electric fan.
It was worth 1hp on the dyno, but lost 3tq.
Track results were uneffected.
I don't believe an elec. fan to be a performance modification, and have said that here and other boards many times.

I've got an AFPR.
Much dyno testing show'd max. hp and tq under the curve at stock pressure.
Track results concured.
I don't believe an AFPR to be a performance modification on a stock motor, and have said that here and other boards many times.

I run a short belt at the track to bypass pwr steering.
This is worth a solid 1/10th on my car, never dyno'd with it in place.

I ice at the track.
Depending on how long the staging lanes are, it can be worth over 1/10th or nothing.

I wear the same sneakers everytime I race.
I wear the same underware every time I race.
I wipe my hands dry on my pants before I prestage, every time.
Once prestaged, I whisper... "ok Mouse... what have you got in ya..." every time.

There, that is all my big and small "tricks" .

Michael Yount · Oct 18, 2004

Great post CleanLX - had me LOL!

If you believe you actually lost 3 lb-ft of torque by taking that heavy mechanical fan off - you should consider putting an even bigger, heavier mechanical fan on that thing. You might pick up who knows how much torque!

The dynos aren't that precise or repeatable - 1HP/3 lb-ft is basically the same run - no change. How did you actually do the run - just remove the mechanical fan and re-run on the same setup? If the before and after occurred at a different time on a different strap-down then all bets are off. Different temps (oil, tranny fluid, rear end lube, ambient), tire pressures, strap tension alone can result in 20HP +/- changes. So when you're looking for the 5HP or so that gets freed up by not whirling that heavy fan around, the dyno won't likely find it for you.

I do trust your track/times/mph experience though - you've got a lot of it.

willys1 · Oct 18, 2004

25thmustang said:
So if it was a factory freak, then wouldnt this 1995 motor be one as well. Afterall I now have that cars bottem end, crank, rods, pistons, cam, lifters, etc...

I am praying my friend got video of that run, as I was next to a modded Mach 1, but he broke off the line, so its almost like a bye run...

CleanLX,sorry bro,you no longer qualify as a FF,,LOL,,theres to much question now about the new motor.is the cam stock?are the heads worked? Nope,,your out of the club

2002BLGT · Oct 18, 2004

my old 140K mile 87 lx hatch 5.0 ran eighth mile at 9.07 at 79 mph .. with a 2.1 60 ft .....bone stock , no pullies , paper air filter , stock 3.08s , stock heads , intake etc...... stock fan .....5spd car that was ordered with roll up windows , cheap seats etc. , no factory radio or anything , weighed 2950 on scales with spare in and factory ten hole wheels ..... what you guys think of that ????? girl that has it now ran a 9.25 at 80 mph a few months ago , car now has glass hood and pullies ....still running the paper air filter which was black by the way LOL , I gave her hell about that one .... car now as over 175K miles on the stock engine..... upper plenum was removed at 155K miles to put on a FPR stock one of course .....now my new 93 lx (factory 3.08s)has run a best of 9.52 at 75mph and a great 2.4 60ft .... havent weighed it yet but I will probably do that this weekend ... new car has all the AC and crap still on it so I am sure the weight has alot to do with it but I still dont think weight reduction is going to take off a full half second .....

04sleeper · Oct 18, 2004

cleanLX said:
I've got an electric fan.
It was worth 1hp on the dyno, but lost 3tq.
Track results were uneffected.
I don't believe an elec. fan to be a performance modification, and have said that here and other boards many times.

I've got an AFPR.
Much dyno testing show'd max. hp and tq under the curve at stock pressure.
Track results concured.
I don't believe an AFPR to be a performance modification on a stock motor, and have said that here and other boards many times.

I run a short belt at the track to bypass pwr steering.
This is worth a solid 1/10th on my car, never dyno'd with it in place.

I ice at the track.
Depending on how long the staging lanes are, it can be worth over 1/10th or nothing.

I wear the same sneakers everytime I race.
I wear the same underware every time I race.
I wipe my hands dry on my pants before I prestage, every time.
Once prestaged, I whisper... "ok Mouse... what have you got in ya..." every time.

There, that is all my big and small "tricks" .

I run an electric fan as well. Short belt, yep. Never iced the intake yet. Need to do that next time. Also I tried 2 different kinds of headers on my car, 1 1/2 inch equal length MAC's and 1 5/8 FRPP shorties. Both lost torque and power on the dyno. I tried to match each run the same with temps and stuff the best I could on the same day. It convinced me to switch back to stock headers and the power and torque went back up.

25thmustang · Oct 18, 2004

New motor was absolutely bone stock, I know the kid who owned it, it had a GT-40 intake, throttle body, maf and pulleys on it. The motor was never opened or never out until he dropped in his stroker motor. I know the cams stock (anyone standing next to it does too), and the heads are my same heads, stock port sizes, with just a set of GT-40 valves. For anyone who doesnt believe me, I made a post asking about having them ported, why would I do this if they were ported already???

So if your telling me Im out of the club, I dont know what club you mean, ill admit the heads have valves in them, but the bottem end is untouched, cobra intake is untouched and the ports in the heads are as small as ever!

Now I cant wait for my 86 block to come... that should help the power some!

Michael Yount · Oct 18, 2004

Naw - you're still in the club. Relax.

cleanLX · Oct 18, 2004

Michael Yount said:
Great post CleanLX - had me LOL!

If you believe you actually lost 3 lb-ft of torque by taking that heavy mechanical fan off - you should consider putting an even bigger, heavier mechanical fan on that thing. You might pick up who knows how much torque! .

Maybe I should mechanically fasten some louvers to a flywheel and bolt it up...
Turkey! .

Michael Yount said:
The dynos aren't that precise or repeatable - 1HP/3 lb-ft is basically the same run - no change. How did you actually do the run - just remove the mechanical fan and re-run on the same setup? If the before and after occurred at a different time on a different strap-down then all bets are off. Different temps (oil, tranny fluid, rear end lube, ambient), tire pressures, strap tension alone can result in 20HP +/- changes. So when you're looking for the 5HP or so that gets freed up by not whirling that heavy fan around, the dyno won't likely find it for you..

Absolutly.
I cannot sit here and say all the stars were aligned.
It was at a different time, but all temps (even tire pressures) were consistant, it was the same dyno, with the same operater, whom is well trusted... and numbers are spit out corrected... but, strap tension may well have been out some...
All bets off when looking for 5hp... ok... I'm in agreement with your analysis.

Michael Yount said:
I do trust your track/times/mph experience though - you've got a lot of it.

Thanks.
Like I say, I saw absolutly no differences, running in d/a withing a couple hundered feet, and 60' times within a few thousands, 330/660/990/1320' were withing a couple of hundredths. (this being over several trips to the track with d/a's hanging in the 3000-3200... then bolting up over 4000 by nights end, ya, real nice air here)
Not only were the times essentially unchanged, but so too was mph which was withing a couple of hundredths... and, the combination 'at the time' was consistant enough to be looking at hundredths for both ET and mph.

so... whatever... I believe it was worth nadda (ok maybe 2hp... max!) over my original clutch fan... not enough to effect track performance... at least not for my driving skill at the time.

willys1 · Oct 18, 2004

LOL,,different valves,,whats the deal with that,why does everyone change the valves?

Michael Yount · Oct 18, 2004

The docs wanna change my dad's heart valves. I think he's gonna go for it. I told him he should have it ported, and go for the larger stainless jobbers......he got a good laugh out of that. Asked if he should opt for 1.90's or 2.02's.

cleanLX · Oct 18, 2004

willys1 said:
LOL,,different valves,,whats the deal with that,why does everyone change the valves?

If I'm not mistaken, he plans on running E7te's in Factory Stock.
Factory stock allows a 200lb weight break(correct me if I'm wrong) for running E7te's, but also allows the use of GT40 sized valves.
I think the 200lbs advantage combined the slightly oversized valves, and a fancy valve job, would be an intresting approach the the GT40p'd field.

25thmustang · Oct 18, 2004

Thats true, no porting allowed but valves. I couldnt afford a fancy valves job, so I just had them put in. I dont know how much they help, but I would say a bit, as the car has NO suspension, and relys solely on power to get the times it gets.

I might have a video of the car, or even one of me running my dads car soon. This is a big "Might" as I dont have a place to host them.

Is there such a thing as a "Factory Freak"?

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