Is there such a thing as a "Factory Freak"?

[5spd GT]

 

[willys1]

LOL,,,Hey,it took 5 pages and over a hundred replys.Me and you have done this before,,but never this long.Be honest,do you believe a little bit in the concept of factory freaks? Dude,what about cleanlx,,that 5.0 is the baddest I ever heard of ( stock H/C/I car,hell,he even has the stock TB )

 

[willys1]

check out the November issue of 5.0 Mustang & super fords,there,s a 92 lx totally stock looking except for rimsand tires.But if you open the hood its stripped down for wieght.Its 100% stock except for fuel pump and injectors.and exhaust and gears.The tranny has a tc and thats it!! It was never opened.StockH/C/I, and TB.He added a vortech with 10 pounds of boost and is in the 10's And yes,,,suspension,and frame connectors.

 

[Michael Yount]

5 spd said - "But again if people are trapping 108+ without h/c/i wouldn't that lead you to believe that with the h/c/i they would be approaching 118mph...Viper, zo6, territory...so now a few 5.0's can beat zo6's and Vipers with just h/c/i "

I don't draw the same conclusion. HP is HP. The 'factory freaks' - those that fall into the 10% of quickest cars stock from the factory - they're simply making more HP stock than the other cars are. You can see it in their trap times. You have the same thing happening on the other end all the time - that poor schmuck with one that he can't get out of the 15's - or with H/C/I that he can't get into the 13's. Instead of looking at CleanLX's car and saying 'it can't be', I look at CleanLX's car and conclude it is an example that proves the theory; there are cars from the factory that run noticeably better and noticeably worse than average.

The other thing you have to remember is that even those cars (like CleanLX's) aren't strictly stock. He's got underdrives, low restriction filter/silencer removed, lots of gear, great traction, longtubes and full exhaust, and clearly a skilled driver. You put all that (incl. the driver) on one of the cars at the other end of the curve (the lemons) and you likely wouldn't see a full second's difference. But a half to 3/4 of a second difference between two identical cars with the same driver is completely believable to me. Throw a skilled driver in the quick one, and an unskilled driver in the slow one and you could have a second and a half difference - easily.

What likely happens with 'factory freaks' is that due to the law of averages - an engine gets assembled that just happens to be in great balance, with all the clearances stacked in the direction of peak performance. Think of it as an accidental blueprinted engine. This isn't people just putting one together really special - it's purely a 'happy accident'.

 

[Michael Yount]

Also - keep in mind - look at the trap speeds. CleanLX is trapping at 108 and running 12.9's. He's getting just about as much as you can get out of a 108 trap speed. The Z06's that are running high twelves are trapping at significantly higher speeds -- they're making considerably more HP. But they weigh a bit more (couple hundred pounds), and they're not geared as effectively as CleanLX. Remember, the same LS2 that runs 12.7's at 114-116 can trip the top end meter at somewhere around 180 mph. Gear him down, and give him more traction - he's gonna be knockin' on 11's. Oh yeah - there'll be some LS2's hitting low 12's stock, and some that can't get out of the 13's. Factory freaks still alive and well today. It's all a game of statistics. They say if you give enough monkeys computers for long enough time, eventually one of them will type out "War and Peace", Tolstoy's 1200 page epic. Assemble enough Corvette's or Mustangs from big parts bins - some will run 12's; some won't get into the 13's.

 

[rsw007]

check out the November issue of 5.0 Mustang & super fords,there,s a 92 lx totally stock looking except for rimsand tires.But if you open the hood its stripped down for wieght.Its 100% stock except for fuel pump and injectors.and exhaust and gears.The tranny has a tc and thats it!! It was never opened.StockH/C/I, and TB.He added a vortech with 10 pounds of boost and is in the 10's And yes,,,suspension,and frame connectors.

yeah, i read that and that one makes me think "stock hmm" just kidding, thats an awesome ride. im sure he gets questioned alot more than me.

 

[5spd GT]

5 spd said - "But again if people are trapping 108+ without h/c/i wouldn't that lead you to believe that with the h/c/i they would be approaching 118mph...Viper, zo6, territory...so now a few 5.0's can beat zo6's and Vipers with just h/c/i "

I don't draw the same conclusion. HP is HP. The 'factory freaks' - those that fall into the 10% of quickest cars stock from the factory - they're simply making more HP stock than the other cars are. You can see it in their trap times. You have the same thing happening on the other end all the time - that poor schmuck with one that he can't get out of the 15's - or with H/C/I that he can't get into the 13's. Instead of looking at CleanLX's car and saying 'it can't be', I look at CleanLX's car and conclude it is an example that proves the theory; there are cars from the factory that run noticeably better and noticeably worse than average.

The other thing you have to remember is that even those cars (like CleanLX's) aren't strictly stock. He's got underdrives, low restriction filter/silencer removed, lots of gear, great traction, longtubes and full exhaust, and clearly a skilled driver. You put all that (incl. the driver) on one of the cars at the other end of the curve (the lemons) and you likely wouldn't see a full second's difference. But a half to 3/4 of a second difference between two identical cars with the same driver is completely believable to me. Throw a skilled driver in the quick one, and an unskilled driver in the slow one and you could have a second and a half difference - easily.

What likely happens with 'factory freaks' is that due to the law of averages - an engine gets assembled that just happens to be in great balance, with all the clearances stacked in the direction of peak performance. Think of it as an accidental blueprinted engine. This isn't people just putting one together really special - it's purely a 'happy accident'.

So one car can run 13.0 and the others run 13.7 with everything being the same (brand new)...I just don't see that big of a difference...isn't the equivalent of 70horsepower (not actually that much but the E.T. shows it)...so some cars are running around (straight off the showroom) with 30-50hp difference...

Yeah I know a bad driver and a good driver can make the difference huge...I think cleanlx has got a couple other "tricks" on his car whether big or small...

 

[Michael Yount]

Well, I guess we can lead this horse to water, but.....

 

[5spd GT]

I just don't see how two 1992 5.0 (5spds straight out of the Ford Plant whether it be in Dearborn or Memphis for final assembly) can have a 50 hp difference (give or take 10?)...

And it not be caught or dealt with by Ford themselves...

 

[Highbredcloud]

I got to toss in my $.02 again...As much as I want to believe the theory of factory freaks and the times people are running with stock castings...well in short it is more believable to me that bigfoot exists...

What I don't understand is how you guys are getting so much HP out of the combos for the limited bolt ons that some of you have...? This is how internet rumors and myths get started...It's like reading a 5.0 magazine and believing all that the manufacturer's claim in terms of gains on the products they make and sell...I just don't see it...

I have been driving Mustangs since I was 17 and had three 5.0L and one 6 banger in the course of my life...(i'm 22 BTW)...And I have never seen or owned what is referred to as a factory freak...Now I have seen a LOT of Mustangs...All of my friends have Mustangs so I have litterally been in the same type of car eversince I can remember...it's really sickning if you think about it...With that said I count my experiences towards my credibility as oppose to a person that ONLY is on their FIRST 5.0L...Let me tell you this much...NO stock 5.0L that I have seen has gotten close to the times mentioned here...or the type of power that the almighty 302 powerplant makes with limited bolt ons...

It's all about power to weight ratio...and a LOT of gear and traction...Drivers matter BUT it seems that most of us in this thread know how to drive...it is now upto the cars to make it happen...

Inconclusion I will be going to a dyno session very soon with about ten other 5.0L's ranging from stock to moddified...I will first hand see res of the popular combos out there and maybe if this thread is still alive I will share just for sihts and giggles...Till then it is a mere speculation or mis-information on what is out there...what is true and what seems to be a myth...Aftermarket is here for a reason other than to simply take your hard earned ca$h...BOX stock parts are on the car in order to choke it down and restrict its full potential inorder to keep the communists over at the EPA quiet...

 

[big_tiger15]

I beat a 03 zo6 vette to 100mph in my 2000 GT but I know if a better driver was in that seat it would be WAY different...

Lol speaking of bad drivers, a couple of weeks ago at the local street races (Dallas). I saw a 2000 or up Corvette get beat by a Civic! As soon as the Vette launched I was thinking he can't launch. Watching a vette go sideways for 100 ft does not spell good driver.
Now the Civic hatch has a B20 bottem end with a B16 JG head but still it doesnt run 12s. Oh and the Vette never came back from that race, wish he would have I would have told that dude he is a DA, and can't drive his car.

Oh yea and seeing a Stock '03 Cavailer hang with a LT1 T/A, into 3rd makes me a firm believer in "Factory freaks," and that was with a bad driver (in the Cavalier, couldn't shift). I was told that some accidentally came with sand cast heads which flow over 300 cfms out the factory.

 

[cleanLX]

For the record, I ran 104.0, the calculators say that would be over 108 "if" I got a good day at sea level. Ask any racer who's been around, and the d/a calc's are accurate.

5spd,
26x10.5-15 ET Streets on turbines, and 26x4.5-15 ET Fronts on Convo pro's when I ran the 12.9... with 2600 d/a.

 

[04sleeper]

He added a vortech with 10 pounds of boost and is in the 10's And yes,,,suspension,and frame connectors.

Actually you need to reread that article. For that run he actually put on a 17 pound pulley and was running a Methenal Injection kit. And yes he had a 4000 RPM stall converter on a stock tranny and a well setup drag suspension.

 

[04sleeper]

Or do what I did - put the motor/tranny in an old Volvo - and you'll outperform EVERYONE's expectations.

Well Put.

 

[5spd GT]

Oh yea and seeing a Stock '03 Cavailer hang with a LT1 T/A, into 3rd makes me a firm believer in "Factory freaks," and that was with a bad driver (in the Cavalier, couldn't shift). I was told that some accidentally came with sand cast heads which flow over 300 cfms out the factory.

Yeah there are some bad drivers out there...but even with a decent driver in an Lt1, the lt1 would beat an 03 Cavalier from jump-start...sounds like the lt1 was in bad shape or it didn't have a good driver at all...or the Cavalier was modded...

 

[Michael Yount]

This thread has outlived it's usefulness kids. At this point it's pretty simple: you either believe that there are significant differences in cars as they roll out of the factory --- or you believe that folks with the quick 'stock' cars are either fudging their times, or not being completely truthful about their mods. I believe there are significant differences in the cars as they roll off the production floor.

 

[5spd GT]

This thread has outlived it's usefulness kids. At this point it's pretty simple: you either believe that there are significant differences in cars as they roll out of the factory --- or you believe that folks with the quick 'stock' cars are either fudging their times, or not being completely truthful about their mods. I believe there are significant differences in the cars as they roll off the production floor.

Michael - Kids? Come on now...we have remained pretty intact and not got in any rude arguments...

My whole "problem" is seeing a 50-60 horsepower difference in two 5spd 92 5.0's off the showroom or how (I look at it)...a h/c/i 5.0 can beat a zo6 or Viper from rolling speeds...

 

[Michael Yount]

Not "kids" like - you're not playing nice and sharing.

"Kids" like - give it a rest kids.

 

[willys1]

Once a kid always a kid I always say,,I always believed,and I always will,think what you want but "FACTORY FREAKS ARE ALIVE AND WELL" Yo Mikee Yount,once again,your knowledge shines brite

 

[25thmustang]

To add to the fire a bit, my car ran a new best this weekend!!

12.56 @ 106, untuned with a 95,000 mile 1995 short block in it now (old one was making a lot of noise). Added some fuel pressure and gained a mph, but the car didnt hook on that pass and was slower. Cant wait for some 12.4s!