Is this shop toying with me??

rage1605 · Nov 10, 2005

I contacted a local preformance shop in my area about dropping a charger in. I do not want to do it myself since I have no clue about the 4.6 engine (btw its a 2004GT).

This is what he said:

As another option, we are a factory authorized Procharger dealer and could do a 10psi Procharger Stage II kit with 3 core intercooler for
$4200.00 and install the same $750.00. 42lb injectors are required as
well for the 10psi kit - $300.00 This system can easily make 470 hp
crank and 410 rwhp.

Now I asked if 10 psi was safe to run on stock internals and if the tranny can handle the theoretical 410rwhp and he said this:

As long as the car is tuned properly (we can do that for you) it won't be a problem at all. The only issue you may run into is sometimes the factory MAF will peg over 9psi, in that case an upgrade to a BIG MAF such as the SCT 2400 Big MAF for $260.00 will take care of that. I would strongly recommend dyno tuning the system as well, we can make sure the car is properly set up with the correct air/fuel an timing. A complete dyno tune will be $500.00 that includes air/fuel with wideband O2, boost, hp and torque.

Can the 4.6 engine handle 10psi?? I never ran that much boost on my old 5.0.... I don't want to drop the cash and then have my engine blow up 200 miles later or screw the tranny up....but I doubt the tranny could handle the torque caused by 410rwhp.....

tomustang · Nov 10, 2005

as long as it's tuned right...

Dragstr05 · Nov 10, 2005

The way I understand it is anything over 400hp at the flywheel on a stock bottom end is a time bomb. Most people seem to be good with 9psi with a good tune. Its only 1psi but it sure makes a difference. You'll be alot safer with a 8 or 9psi pulley.

Fast02 · Nov 10, 2005

Dude you're getting a Kenne Bell.

squares98 · Nov 10, 2005

Ive been told and seen that with the ATI kit anything past 8psi is guarenteed engine failure sooner than later.

sgarlic · Nov 10, 2005

Dragstr05 said:
The way I understand it is anything over 400hp at the flywheel on a stock bottom end is a time bomb. Most people seem to be good with 9psi with a good tune. Its only 1psi but it sure makes a difference. You'll be alot safer with a 8 or 9psi pulley.

There isn't a certain line, horsepower wise, where suddenly it's "not safe" to run on this motor anymore. If you read articles at modularfords or modular depot, you'll read about people running nearly 600rwhp on the stock block with good SCT tunes.

The main causes for failure after ~400-450rwhp are: poor tune, detonation (caused by excessive heat normally, and poor tune (i.e. too much timing)), bad batch of gas, bad driving habits. I read in October's MM&FF that he'd seen a stock lower end running 650hp with no problems.

If you don't over do it, and you run quality fuel with a good tune, and you don't peg the rev limiter every opportunity you get (no sense, considering our motors make the most power way before that anyway,) you could easily run 10psi on a stock block.

DBMSTNG · Nov 10, 2005

10psi is fine. i suggest a 90mm LMAF. it will handle that power easily and is cheaper than the SCT. i'm surprised the kit doesn't include 42lb injectors.

i wouldn't worry about 410rwhp as long as the tune is good. however, if you beat on the car hard enough and long enough, you will warp the rods if they don't break first.

03ghoststang · Nov 10, 2005

if you do decide to go with the 10psi kit i would start to save for forged internal's first go with 8psi then forge the bottom end kinda like insuring your self and knowing that it wont give as easily then up the boost but tha is my opinion on this

Don 95Vert · Nov 10, 2005

At around 400 RWHP a stock 2v is a time bomb. It isn't about detonation or a great tune. Of course detonation would make it much worse, and a great tune might help forstall the inevitable. The problem is you are exceeding, by a HUGE margin, the cylinder pressure limits of the engine components as designed by Ford. It may last ten years or die on the dyno during a tune, but it will break. Cars that make 650 RWHP on stock internals are freaks - or MM&FF is bending the truth a bit, which is not unheard of.

Detonation makes this even worse because detonation increases cylinder pressure. Think about this - why did Ford put Manley rods in the '03 Cobras?

xseler8 · Nov 10, 2005

It has been said that RPM's kill the motor not the boost. If you intent on keeping the 4.6 stock keep the boost minimal, use a shift light(5500-5600rpm's) Thats what I'm doing. I'm at 391.3rw and have plenty to work with. A fraction of a second is not worth damaging the engine. 8#'s are plenty..you will not have less of a good time. Your installer will make you sign a waiver releasing them from liability before the dyno. If the motor blows you will hear oops..sorry. just my opinion

'13_ImpactBlue_GT · Nov 10, 2005

03ghoststang said:
if you do decide to go with the 10psi kit i would start to save for forged internal's first go with 8psi then forge the bottom end kinda like insuring your self and knowing that it wont give as easily then up the boost but tha is my opinion on this

Sounds like a good idea.

jimfitzgerald · Nov 10, 2005

sgarlic said:
There isn't a certain line, horsepower wise, where suddenly it's "not safe" to run on this motor anymore. If you read articles at modularfords or modular depot, you'll read about people running nearly 600rwhp on the stock block with good SCT tunes.

The main causes for failure after ~400-450rwhp are: poor tune, detonation (caused by excessive heat normally, and poor tune (i.e. too much timing)), bad batch of gas, bad driving habits. I read in October's MM&FF that he'd seen a stock lower end running 650hp with no problems.

If you don't over do it, and you run quality fuel with a good tune, and you don't peg the rev limiter every opportunity you get (no sense, considering our motors make the most power way before that anyway,) you could easily run 10psi on a stock block.

What the hell are you smoking? Nobody is running 600 rwhp safely on a stock block. You can safely run 400 rwhp on a stock block with a good tune, maybe a little more. Much more than that you need forged internals.

sgarlic · Nov 10, 2005

jimfitzgerald said:
What the hell are you smoking? Nobody is running 600 rwhp safely on a stock block. You can safely run 400 rwhp on a stock block with a good tune, maybe a little more. Much more than that you need forged internals.

Not smoking a thing. Pick up the October MM&FF and check it out. I didn't write the article, no need to get angry at the messenger.

sgarlic · Nov 10, 2005

Here you go.. probably need to save as to magnify it.

www.sgarlic.com/article.jpg

Enjoy.. that first new paragraph in the right column is the one you're looking for.

jimfitzgerald · Nov 10, 2005

sgarlic said:
Here you go.. probably need to save as to magnify it.

www.sgarlic.com/article.jpg

Enjoy.. that first new paragraph in the right column is the one you're looking for.

Don't believe everything you read, especially in a car magazine. I don't know about a 2005 or newer, but much over 400 rwhp in a 2v, you need forged internals, not to mention a fuel system too.

sgarlic · Nov 10, 2005

jimfitzgerald said:
Don't believe everything you read, especially in a car magazine. I don't know about a 2005 or newer, but much over 400 rwhp in a 2v, you need forged internals, not to mention a fuel system too.

Jim, I'm not disagreeing that forged internals on a blown motor are a great idea, ditto for an upgraded fuel system.. just trying to not discourage people here (especially those like me debating what direction to take) from going blown. I'm sure you've known several people who blew up their stock lower end, then were actually happy to have a reason to rebuild.

jimfitzgerald · Nov 11, 2005

sgarlic said:
Jim, I'm not disagreeing that forged internals on a blown motor are a great idea, ditto for an upgraded fuel system.. just trying to not discourage people here (especially those like me debating what direction to take) from going blown. I'm sure you've known several people who blew up their stock lower end, then were actually happy to have a reason to rebuild.

Yes, I have, including myself. But people need to go into this knowing what they are getting into. Telling someone they can safely run 600 rwhp on stock internals is just not correct.

03ghoststang · Nov 11, 2005

i had a friend blow his stock block at 420HP it was tuned real good and one night in the highway he got on it and kaboom. Now he is saving for a new block with forged internals and he kept saying that it wouldn't blow cause the tune was good. but you can get lucky and get away with it or it can blow quite fast.

o0akoni0o · Nov 11, 2005

Fast02 said:
Dude you're getting a Kenne Bell.

hahahaha. either that or a mongoose kit with some extras, lol.

xseler8 · Nov 11, 2005

03ghoststang said:
i had a friend blow his stock block at 420HP it was tuned real good and one night in the highway he got on it and kaboom. Now he is saving for a new block with forged internals and he kept saying that it wouldn't blow cause the tune was good. but you can get lucky and get away with it or it can blow quite fast.

Did he over rev it?

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