Issues after Intake/MAF/TB Install

[speedfreek95GT]

Yesterday I installed Trick Flow Track Heat upper and lower intakes, Granatelli MAF, and BBK 70mm throttle body. On the first start up attempt, we couldn't get the car started, which ended up being the coil wasn't plugged in (I don't know how I missed that, but I did). Anyways, I think there was a little too much fuel in the cylinders from the multiple attempts to fire, however it started right up. I started it and let it run for a few to try and burn out some excess fuel and then the problems started. The car idles just fine until you touch the accelerator; even the slightest touch kills it. After starting it and killing it 2 or 3 times, I said forget it, it's been an all day project I'll mess with it tomorrow. I started it up again today and it fired right up, and as soon as you hit the gas, it dies. I rolled it into the driveway and fired it up again and revved it a few times to about 3k and it will run until I let the rpm's back down and it dies. This time I fired it up again and held it right at 2,000 rpm and it runs smooth, doesn't seem like it's missing or cutting out, and I would have thought I'd burned any excess fuel out by now. Again, when I let off the gas after holding it at 2k, rpms dropped back to idle and then it sputters and dies. I'm completely confused as to why it will idle on its own, hold it's own at 2k rpm, and anything in between kills it. The MAF is a 75mm for 19# injectors. I didn't see any reason why this setup wouldn't work, based on parts compatability and other guys who have bought the same parts or ran a similar setup. Any ideas????

 

[divit250r]

Have you already gone through the idle settings and IAC setup stuff? If you installed a new TB and just transferred your stuff over, you may have to do some fine tuning to make it lose the issues. Also, did you recheck the timing? I don't have the same parts you do, but doing these little checks made a huge difference for me at least.

Scott

 

[MysteryMachine]

makes sure you have everything pluged back in and that you don't have any unmetered are geting in there. I knw on my tb adapters there were holes that needed pluged. Also like scott sad you'll prolly have to mess with the idle screw on the tb to set it just right

 

[speedfreek95GT]

Ok, as far as any IAC setup, I wasn't aware of any. The throttle body came with a bright red paper stating it was tested and preset from the factory (I know that has its limits too) and I did check the spacing on the throttle linkage, it was properly spaced at .010". I will keep checking to see if anything isn't plugged in. Everything on the elbow and all of the vaccum ports are connected/plugged. Any specifics on what I need to do with the IAC or TPS settings?

The car has an E303 Ford Racing cam as well, could the cam have any effect on the car? After thinking about it, this is similar to what happened when I installed the cam. The cam was the first thing done to the car, and at the time the car had an AODE in it. Now it's a 5 speed and there are a few other bolt ons but they wouldn't be directly related to this issue.

 

[MysteryMachine]

i might be wrong but i don't thing you can change any settings on our IAC. On the tb itself there is a little screw that you mess with for idle.

 

[speedfreek95GT]

Ok, thanks for the ideas. I'm a night shifter so I won't be able to get around to messing with the car again until Friday. I might throw the stock MAF back on if the idle adjustments don't solve the issue just to rule out a possible MAF malfunction. I was told I wouldn't need a tune for this setup to work but that a tune could potentially improve performance. I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed and hope some tweaking helps!

 

[Black95GTS]

Is the MAF calibrated for the correct size injectors your are using? E-cams are notoriously difficult to tune with our ECU. Most people who run them on SN95s perform band aids like upping fuel pressure and twisting the distributor to get an idle.

Have you tried bumping the idle up to 850 or so? Even with the mostly stock junk I have, I found that bumping the idle up to around 750 made everything better.

I think you need to look into tuning solutions.

Adam

 

[legalize420]

turn the idle up a bit. i have mine at about 900. its going to be more of trial and error. turn the iac screw all the way in and back it out two turns. from there adjust the blade stop screw untill the idle is about 900. from there you can try going a little bit lower. my car will idle and rev fine but the problem is starting while hot. it will surge and die if i dont keep the rpms up or just drive right away. right after that it will settle and be fine within 15 seconds. you could swap the maf but im sure it will do the same thing.


edit. when i say hot im not talking about engine temp. only during the day in the summer. most of the year it will start with no problem.

 

[speedfreek95GT]

The new maf is calibrated for 19's. My only concern I had with the granatelli maf I bought was that I ordered a 75mm maf and the one that I took out of the box and went to put on my car I can stick my fist inside of. I'm not sure what size it is but the part number on the box matches what I ordered from Summit and it's supposedly 75mm and it's quite clearly larger than 75mm. Regarding the IAC, I remember when I put that on the throttle body that in order for it to line up and mount correctly I put the IAC on that stud that sticks out of the throttle body and had to slightly turn the IAC to make sure the screw holes lined up. That mechanism inside the IAC turned to make it fit, could that be causing any issues or is that what everyone else has experienced?

 

[legalize420]

I remember when I put that on the throttle body that in order for it to line up and mount correctly I put the IAC on that stud that sticks out of the throttle body and had to slightly turn the IAC to make sure the screw holes lined up. That mechanism inside the IAC turned to make it fit, could that be causing any issues or is that what everyone else has experienced?

that is the throttle position sensor you are refering to and that is the correct way to put it on and would not cause a problem. the IAC-idle air control motor is the other sensor right next to it.

 

[speedfreek95GT]

problem solved guys....it was the maf. i put the stock one back on and the car runs perfect. i measured the (supposed to be 75mm) maf i ordered, it's 95mm, i think someone goofed up. i did reset the idle which also helped to ease some of the surging at idle. thanks again guys for throwing out ideas!

 

[final5-0]

The new maf is calibrated for 19's. My only concern I had with the granatelli maf I bought was that I ordered a 75mm maf and the one that I took out of the box and went to put on my car I can stick my fist inside of. I'm not sure what size it is but the part number on the box matches what I ordered from Summit and it's supposedly 75mm and it's quite clearly larger than 75mm. Regarding the IAC, I remember when I put that on the throttle body that in order for it to line up and mount correctly I put the IAC on that stud that sticks out of the throttle body and had to slightly turn the IAC to make sure the screw holes lined up. That mechanism inside the IAC turned to make it fit, could that be causing any issues or is that what everyone else has experienced?

An after market meter caled for 19's is almost always not gonna yield much
of a gain ... if any

The reason is simply because not enough airflow is being generated to
make the oem meter ineffective.

If you only got the intake, e-cam, and tb ... I'd just stay with the oem meter

as for trying to get by without a tune .................
Just one more reason to keep the oem meter as opposed to after market
cause the oem meter is quite accurate.

Where you can get into trouble with trying to mod a 94-95 Stang without
a tune is in the area of fuel needs.

When talking about oem mafs and inj's .........

You will out grow the needs of 19lb inj's
before
The oem meter can't accurately report airflow requirements of 24's

Now ... You can run elevated levels of fuel pressure which will allow you
a bit of a fudge factor with the 19's ... but ... you can only fudge so much
before you run across issues of being too lean.

Consider what Ford did for inj size in the GT & Cobra
and
Compare the power output of each combo
and
They did all that with the exact same meter

That poor little oem meter
It just don't get much respect

Grady

 

[speedfreek95GT]

I guess I was sort of led in the wrong direction by a few people (not anyone on this forum or thread) but it was explained to me that I'd gain a decent amount of power just throwing on the bigger MAF. I know the 19's aren't flowing 100% capacity from the factory and it was my understanding that if you put on a larger MAF and had it tuned, the tune could increase the flow through the injectors, it isn't just a matter of throwing the bigger MAF on. I was told that I was wrong (which obviously I wasn't to an extent) and I threw the MAF on and had problems. My other frustration is I ordered one MAF and recieved something incredibly larger. That's in the works of being resolved. My objective with these bolt-ons was to throw a few more ponies down at the wheels. I know I won't see huge numbers out of it, but the car is a street toy/show car....I'm not too gung-ho on power. I noticed a seat of the pants difference with these intakes and TB and I'm pleased as punch with it. Basically, I'm just left with getting a set of heads to finish off the bolt-ons. I think a tune or a chip later down the road would be fun, a few dyno pulls or something like that but as long as I can drive the car on the road, take it on a road trip, and have some fun on the streets with it, I'm set. According to Grady, my best bet would be to just stick with the stock MAF and leave it. Since I've already paid for the Granatelli, should I have them send me a stock size MAF in exchange or just get my money back? Will I get anything (power wise) out of a 70mm MAF or not?

 

[final5-0]

First things first ... You already have a 70mm meter ... its the oem meter

That meter is designed to work with all the airflow you are gonna be
generating with oem stuff providing you stay NA

You will need larger inj's before that meter becomes too small
but
Since you don't wanna tune

The pressing need of more fuel will dictate you upgrade the oem
meter at the same time you go with larger inj's

Yes ... you can run higher pressure but sooner or later ... in your
quest for more power ... you just generate more airflow than 19's
can feed ... even at those higher levels of pressure.

Understanding that ......... lets look at your current situation

If you tell Granatelli to send you a meter caled for 19's

Lets look at a few things that you should ... IMHO ... consider

You already got a meter that works with 19's
You stand a chance of drivabilitly issues with the G meter
You will gain little or none with the G meter ... is it worth it

Now ...heres a consideration that very well could cost you more
money if you go with the 19# caled G meter

Say you continue to mod your Stang for more power
and
Wanna move to larger inj's ..........

You're gonna have to send the meter back to G for a 24# recal

For all the above reasons ..............

Thats why an after market meter caled for 19's just don't make sense

Of course ... C&L does all that with those swappable tube thingies
but
None of that applies to what you are doing

Also ... While we are talking C&L

I'd still not advise doing a C&L caled for 19's
simply cause
The gain is gonna be small or none

Some mods like catbacks, tb's, and yes meters ........
They don't do much on a Stock Stang or even a bolt on Stang
because combos of that nature ... the motor just can't generate
enough airflow to render the oem parts as being ineffective.

Its such a pisser when you lay out cash for mods like that
and
You then find you did not get the gain you expected

anyway ............

I almost made 300 to the wheels with the oem meter
see the sig

"It can flow more than most would think"

Thats a quote by ... Me
and
Notice I didn't put one of those IMHO deals in front or behind it
because
I've got the data that makes that quote ... also a ... fact

Hey ... I've already told you more than I know about this subject

Good Luck ... Which ever way you decide to go

Grady

 

[speedfreek95GT]

I actually have a Tweecer RT a friend of mine loaned me....he was going to use it on his fox (which is what it was purchased for) and he's now going with SCT. I know absolutely positively NOTHING about tuning or where to even start. Will the Tweecer RT for fox work on sn95's? I wouldn't be against tuning my car or "tweaking" it if it's me attempting to learn how to use the system, I'm just trying to avoid ridiculous local shop rates to tune a car, and the results with the cars that roll in and out vary by about 50%. Half walk away happy and the other half of the cars are flatbedded to another shop to start over. Any recommendations on what I should look at if I decided to play around with a tuner?

(I'm not trying to be all over the place here...just ambitious and indecisive!)

 

[MysteryMachine]

In my opnion if it only loaned and not yours I wouldn't worry about it. Its dumb to take the time to learn and tune the car then have to give it back. I might be worng but I think you lose everything once you take it out so its a waste of time

 

[final5-0]

I actually have a Tweecer RT a friend of mine loaned me....he was going to use it on his fox (which is what it was purchased for) and he's now going with SCT. I know absolutely positively NOTHING about tuning or where to even start. Will the Tweecer RT for fox work on sn95's? I wouldn't be against tuning my car or "tweaking" it if it's me attempting to learn how to use the system, I'm just trying to avoid ridiculous local shop rates to tune a car, and the results with the cars that roll in and out vary by about 50%. Half walk away happy and the other half of the cars are flatbedded to another shop to start over. Any recommendations on what I should look at if I decided to play around with a tuner?

(I'm not trying to be all over the place here...just ambitious and indecisive!)

I can only speak for me and why I wanted to self tune

I've always liked seeing what makes things tick
That lead me to my interest in cars and hot rodding them

Its satisfying when "I" make a plan for more power
and
It works as planned because "I" did the work

None of the above would happen for me unless "I" did it.......
not
Someone else that might do it

For years now ... That has been my experience with working on cars

Then ... I got back in the hobby after being away for a while

I saw how a little silver box controlled things
I saw how that box allowed you to have the following:
great power
great drivability
great gas milage
and more

I then saw where peeps were just starting to learn how to break
Ford's code and take control of the programming in that little box

I was naturally very intrigued by that whole idea

From all my past experience with hot rods, I knew the basics about
optimizing fuel and spark to work efficiently with upgraded parts.

It was so obvious to me ... it was the same as when I was a kid
hosing around with jets in the carb for fuel & re-curving dizzys for
spark ... except ... for my 95 ... I would be able to do those things
in that little silver box ... that is ... after I learned what made it tick.

Now ... my reason for saying all that is ....
Do you relate to any of that kind of thinking

If so ... You might like self tuning

You talk about some get a good tune
and
Some don't

I wanna be in total control of my car
and
Since I turn the wrenches and tune it as well ... I am

I won't say that guy in Grady's garage always has total knowledge
but
Whether its or I know I can control the outcome

Anything I don't understand ... many others have done it before
and the answer is easily found from my notes by them or I can
find the info with a simple search.

I can safely say ... "I've never got a bad tune in Grady's garage"
so
I don't have to take a risk or chance ... cause ... I have control

Now ... I make all that sound so good ... don't I

I really have enjoyed learning a new skill
and
Putting it to good use on my little 95GT

But ... You talked about ridiculous shop rates

Here is where self tuning is not all that great

The amount of money you gotta lay out is kinda ridiculous like those rates
when you look at a complete package to self tune your Stang

To me a complete package consists of:
hardware & software to manipulate pcm values
hardware & software to gather and store real time data
hardware & software to gather and store real time wide band data
software to help with data analysis

You are gonna be looking at around 1 Grand minimum to do the above

Notice how I did not pick one tuning method over another

I wanted to kind of give you a feel for what its like to self tune
cause
You'll have to invest some time, money, and brain cells .......

No matter which method you would choose to use

Grady