KB blower

[Dan_Soprano]

Also centri blowers are equally as easy to install. I did mine the fuel system, and intercooler in about 10 hours over a 3 day weekend by myself just taking my time, and I had never even seen it done before, and the instructions were not that great.

last thing 2V > 4V

I've installed 4 KBs (1- 01 GT, 1- 01 Cobra, and 2 kits on 03/04 Cobras), and a few vortechs in my days. I think the Vortechs were a faster install, but the KB was easier due to the instructions if that makes any sense. There's alot more work involved to install a KB kit ( more parts). The 03/04 Cobras being the exception because it is pretty much off and on with the new blower.

I told myself I wouldn't get envolved in these threads again because all they end up doing is starting a HUGE flame war. I have alot more experiance with blowers then most (but not all) people on this board, essp. Kenne Bells. The low end torque is def. fun with the KBs. Alot of people say the KB's "fall off" because they don't get that surge of power in the upper RPM's like the Centi. guys do, but people also fail to realize that the power is already there on a KB. If I were to do a GT build for myself again, I would def. go with a NOVI 2000 setup (with 4.10's), or a KB 2.2L setup. IMO the 1.7 can't flow enough air for big horsepower (over 500) applications. Under that they are great. If you plan on hitting the track more then a few times a year, then go with the Centi. application. If you want a good light to light fun car, then go with the KB 1700 kit. ANY BLOWN CAR IS GOING TO BE MORE FUN THEN AN N/A CAR (most of the time )!! I don't care if it is Positive Displacment or Centrifugal blown. If you really want to get crazy.....go with a Turbo setup!! The HP performance kit isn't that much more for the GT kit then the KB 1700. Plus, with the HP kit you get the new K-member, headers, A arms, ect........something to thing about......

 

[68 & 00 GT]

well said

only to me the 2.2 and turbo kits should be mainly for track cars. I'm building a way overkill street car otherwise I'd get a 2.2, or twin turbo set up also, but to keep those on the road w/o slicks would be about impossible. I'll be running 315 DR's, high / long gears, and a lot of suspension goodies.

 

[2001sleeper]

the apex dynos presented earlier are a bad comparison between the two blowers. The KB is a typical 9psi graph, they are awesome and consistent. The vortech was not a good comparison as nobody knows the psi, there was no intercooler, and other mods are non existent. At 9psi the KB graphs always look better, but like many have stated it depends on what your final plans are. The 1.7 KBs don't have a comparable lung capacity like s and t trims or the novi 2000.

 

[back_in_black]

Kinda off topic, but you will LOVE the KB with an auto. A firend of mine had a KB on a 93 Lightening (E4OD auto). It was SICK.

I agree, first time out, 12.3 on my kb'd auto, it took me 7-8 tries with my 03 cobra (w/471 rwhp) to run a 12.1. the kb'd cobra guys that have gone to autos love them as well !!! I did not have any traction issues at all. (I love to jump in any time I hear good info on autos !) Let the flaming begin - back on topic, I wish I had gone with the 2,2 kb as well ! When do you ever have enough horsepower.......you get used to whatever you have and want more !!! The 1.7 is limited, I don't want to do any head work or cams because I am afraid I will out grow the 1.7 as I have read other people have done ! I keep telling myself an 11 second street car is plenty !

 

[YellowJacketGT]

Some comparisons same car:
Vortech 14#

KB #14

KB #14 Heads Cam

KB 2.2 #18

Same rwh to Vortech would kick the KB's but at the track.
I have timeslips for some of the configurations.

390rwh Vortech 12.3 ET 114.38 mph
500rwh KB 11.9 ET 119.39 mph

Much of the difference had to do with inability to get the tires to stick.
1.7 60' came out of the hole at idle...
1.7 would also give up at the top end.

Vortech never gave up...

Will be interesting with the current config. Pulls strong all the way through...
Again the issue will be hookup.

Still would take the KB over the vortech. Nothing like it around the street for a quick thrill...

 

[white99gt]

well said

only to me the 2.2 and turbo kits should be mainly for track cars. I'm building a way overkill street car otherwise I'd get a 2.2, or twin turbo set up also, but to keep those on the road w/o slicks would be about impossible. I'll be running 315 DR's, high / long gears, and a lot of suspension goodies.

Actually any blower with good power is gonna be hard to hook on the street.Hell at 463rwhp street tires were no match for the power.SInce being blown drag radials is the only tire that allows me to get SOME traction on the street.

As far as the 2.2 being a track blower,its far from it.Its like saying a novi200 is a track only blower(which at one time thats why it was built).

The 2.2 will make more power with the same boost compaired to a 1.7.

Ive owned both a vortech and i know have a 2.2(that i finally get to install as we speak).
I made good power on a vortech,and expect the same from the 2.2.But the lower end power is something i want,plus with the KB you make peak power lower in the rpms.Which means you dont have to spin it to the moon to make better numbers.Not spinning the to high rpms also means longer life.Not that a high rpm setup cant.Its just more stress.

SOme were compairing the cost of a KB to other blowers.Well considering the KB comes with a heat exchanger(intercooled),blower,bap,tune,injectors,fuel rails,manifold,gaskets,and anything else needed to make the kit 100% bolt on.I say its in line with a a vortech/paxton setup by the time you add on everything else.

 

[00s281sc368]

Yes, I have seen that press release before. But I will tell you what...email Ken back and ask him if it would be ok to call a KB a whipplecharger and see what he says.

Yeah the whipple (=saleen) use different lobe angle than the KB and has one more lobe (or one less...). Anyway it requires also more power to drive it... so efficiency is very different.

 

[00s281sc368]

The 1.7 KBs don't have a comparable lung capacity like s and t trims or the novi 2000.

If you upgrade to T-trim or so and add more boost, forge the engine and so on, it's not comparing the same blower.
We just compare blowers the way they come on a stock block at same boost level. Maybe they're "capable" of more but that also mean other engine upgrades, so it's not fair comparaison. Everyone does not convert it's street legal blower to a 20psi killer machine...

 

[00s281sc368]

Some comparisons same car:
Vortech 14#

KB #14

KB #14 Heads Cam

KB 2.2 #18

QUOTE]

Ouch...at 4000rpm the KB (without heads&cams) still makes 100rwhp more than vortech

 

[Gearbanger 101]

We just compare blowers the way they come on a stock block at same boost level. Maybe they're "capable" of more but that also mean other engine upgrades, so it's not fair comparaison. Everyone does not convert it's street legal blower to a 20psi killer machine...

Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison either. Boost levels are irrelevant when you consider that a centrifugal has to force its air through a stock intake manifold, T/B and elbow that creates much more backpressure than the KB’s custom design and large throttle body. Seeing 9psi with both units doesn't exactly mean that they're moving the same volume of air. Not only that, but centrifugals also work better the harder they're spun. An S-trim for example would get it's ass kicked all over the place at say a 6-psi level in comparison to a KB running at that same amount of boost. But when you spin the S-trim hard and it really starts moving the air, it does so without creating the same level of heat and horsepower robbing force that the twin screw does. The centrifugal spins a smaller, lighter impeller versus the KB, which compresses air continuously by turning two long and fairly heavy screws (lobes). Eventually the KB runs out of breath not necessarily because of a lesser manifold design, since we already know it’s better than the stock PI manifold, but because it can no longer promote a comparable adiabatic efficiency rate in comparison to the centrifugal due to the design of the blower itself. The KB was made to move a large volume of air at relatively slow (in comparison) blower speeds (in the 16,000rpm range). Centrifugal blowers are designed to move a large volume of air at much faster blower RPM (anywhere from 40,000-70,000rpm). So as far as comparing boost to boost…. it’s really apples and oranges by comparison.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Some comparisons same car:
Vortech 14#

KB #14

KB #14 Heads Cam

KB 2.2 #18

Ouch...at 4000rpm the KB (without heads&cams) still makes 100rwhp more than vortech

Without knowing other mods done to either car, it's really impossible to compare the two based on PSI levels alone. As I stated above, the better manifold design and large T/B the KB comes equipped with already gives it an advantage over the stock PI set up. You start adding exhaust mods and what not on top of that and it’s anybodies game. Additional breathing mods make a huge difference, which is why KB#’s show up a little higher than a Centrifugal. Again....14psi, is not just 14psi. There are far more variables to consider.

 

[YellowJacketGT]

Without knowing other mods done to either car, it's really impossible to compare the two based on PSI levels alone. As I stated above, the better manifold design and large T/B the KB comes equipped with already gives it an advantage over the stock PI set up. You start adding exhaust mods and what not on top of that and it’s anybodies game. Additional breathing mods make a huge difference, which is why KB#’s show up a little higher than a Centrifugal. Again....14psi, is not just 14psi. There are far more variables to consider.

Vortech 14#
KB #14
The Vortech and KB without cams & port were just a bolt on swap of blowers.
Boost to boost fair comparison.

KB #14 Heads Cam
The next was was ported heads and cams only.

KB 2.2 #18
Upgrades for the 2.2
Fuel system (Dual Focus pump #8 line to rails),
SCT 2800, 65# injectors
8 rib system
7.5 crank/ 2.75 pulley

 

[300bhp/ton]

Without knowing other mods done to either car, it's really impossible to compare the two based on PSI levels alone. As I stated above, the better manifold design and large T/B the KB comes equipped with already gives it an advantage over the stock PI set up. You start adding exhaust mods and what not on top of that and it’s anybodies game. Additional breathing mods make a huge difference, which is why KB#’s show up a little higher than a Centrifugal. Again....14psi, is not just 14psi. There are far more variables to consider.

But isn't that the case in point??

The KB kit may be more expensive, but you can buy it and get every single thing you need so it won't cost you any extra to get the most out of it.

The other kits are cheaper, but to bring them in line with the KB specification wise will cost extra money.

So potentially a stock 99+ 4.6 GT with the full KB 9psi kit and a catback exhaust will give you 400rwhp+, this to me appeals as it makes it lot easier than trying to match parts up to see if they work or not.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

But isn't that the case in point??

The KB kit may be more expensive, but you can buy it and get every single thing you need so it won't cost you any extra to get the most out of it.

The other kits are cheaper, but to bring them in line with the KB specification wise will cost extra money.

So potentially a stock 99+ 4.6 GT with the full KB 9psi kit and a catback exhaust will give you 400rwhp+, this to me appeals as it makes it lot easier than trying to match parts up to see if they work or not.

Ehhh, yes to a point I suppose. The additional $2,000 for another 20-50hp/tq when comparing both blowers at 8-9psi just isn’t that appealing to me, when the Centi can be brought up to par for far less. Aside from the need to upgrade to the larger T/B (and possibly an elbow) the difference in the intake manifold can be made up by merely spinning the Centrifugal a little harder. Centrifugal blowers aren't as detrimental to stock internals as Positive displacement blowers are at higher boost levels since they don’t make nearly the same amount of heat and air volume comes on in a more gradual, controllable fashion. That’s why you see so many guys able to be running 10-11…even 12psi on stock internals successfully with the Centi’s. Those kind of boost levels on a positive displacement blower are a sure recipe for disaster. It brings me back to my point as to why these things can’t be compared by boost levels alone. Positive displacement blowers make more power with less boost…that’s a strait up fact, but Centi’s make more power on more boost. Yes, boost levels can be raised with the Positive displacement blower as well, but that’s when they start to move beyond they’re adiabatic efficiency rate and to the point where spinning them harder starts to have a detrimental effect. The screws actually start to become a restriction in the system and the heat they produce works against it.

I still think the KB is one of the best options for a street car, since many are quite satisfied with seeing 400rwhp with them anyway, but I just felt that a few things needed to be cleared up about the centrifugal kits as well. So many people are under the impression that just because KB’s often make more power lower boost levels, that they must make more power at all boost levels and it’s just not so.

 

[Dan_Soprano]

god this thread is still alive!!!

 

[Dan_Soprano]

LOL Thought I'd bring this one back!!

 

[YellowJacketGT]

LOL Thought I'd bring this one back!!

I have since upgraded to a 2.2. 7.5 crank/2.75 pulley... #18psi...
605rwh/563tq (STD numbers).

Just keeps on pulling. Much different up top than the 1.7.

Only have 13* of timing down low and 16* up top.

What pulley combination are you using?
At 13# I would guess you are using a 6.5 crank /3" pulley.

I think this combo will knock the socks off the orginal Vortech combo.

 

[Mike97gt]

You've never seen a Centrifugal blown car make over 411rwhp and 423rwtq? You need to get out more.


Agree


Agree


Hmmmm 3-2 shift puts you right in most Centi sweet spot and is right around where the twin screw starts to mellow out. This is where the Centi's take over at the track and it's going to be no different on the street.


Centi will make that much power....and more, for less money.


You're going to need forged internals with either blower at that power level, but the Centi car is likely to hold up better with a more gradual volume of air than the KB's spike right from the get go. Positive displacement blowers make thing lean in a hurry, all it takes is one little detonation and it's all over.

I'm all for KB's guys, but quit being so bias here. Most KB owners talk as though it's the only blower available or worth getting? Is that what most of you guys have to keep telling yourself and others to justify spending all of that money? A KB is a kick-street blower, but it's not the only street blower, nor is it the only one capable of adding serious, fun, usable power to a Mustang.

but foir what you want the kb may be the best bet.

 

[Ilya]

I am probably going with KB, because at around $4800 for the 1.7L intercooled kit, I can't find anything else that matches up with it. Every other kit I have looked at has no intercooler, so when you factor that in you are right around the KB price tag. People in this thread mentioned a ~$2000 difference between KB and some other blowers, and the difference in HP would be 20-50.. which other blower were they talking about? I will be using my car as a daily driver, with most of the driving done in the city, not on the freeway.. so I think the KB is best for me (unless there is a comparable blower for $1000 less.)

 

[DeadLurker]

a problem I have with the lower torque power provided by the KB is traction. Unless you run a lot of suspension mods, and some serious tires I don't see how you can use the lower torque anyway. My centri on the other hand builds more gradually giving me a better chance of hooking up in first gear. If I raced a KB car with similar power to my car he would only have an advantage in first gear from 1,500 RPM to ~2,500 RPM. Now who launches at that low of an rpm anyway ? No one. After first gear at WOT my rpm's never fall low enough that I'm not getting plenty of boost to haul balls. Your decision also should depend on where you plan to go with the car in the future. The 1.7 KB does have it's power limits. I say this b/c you mentioned getting head work, and cams. Not a P1SC but most any other popular centri blower will surpass what a 1.7 KB is capable of. See the results for yourself below, and not one 1.7 KB listed - oh b/c they are 2.2's

all info taken directly from here - and this is all about the most recent data and best work out there.
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=63

Vortech JT trim 670 RWHP / 570 RWTQ (2V)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18245

Novi 2000 660 RWHP / 570 RWTQ (auto 2V)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16685

Vortech little ole S-trim 626 RWHP / 560 RWTQ (2V)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18244

Whipple 602 RWHP / 569 RWTQ (4V)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17253

KB 2.2 (not a 1.7) 605 RWHP / 551 RWTQ (4V)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11771

Novi 2000 619rwhp/563rwtq (2V)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9773

KB 2.2 (not a 1.7) 598 RWHP / 547 RWTQ (2V)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9695

Novi 2000 648 RWHP / 519 RWTQ (same car as above different poweradder)
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9697

KB 2.2 (not a 1.7)w/ NOS 660 RWHP / 698 RWTQ (2V)
w/o NOS 615 RWHP / 570 RWTQ
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9676

all the above cars have built / forged internal motors too, other than the Whippled 4V it didn't say so I'm not sure on that one. So there are no excuses on any of them unless they were limited by something else as to their full potential such as fuel supply. As far as which one is fastest - it's hard to compare b/c some are street cars, and some are full / all out race cars. This was only meant to compare some peak RWHP / RWTQ numbers on different blowers.

Now I'm not saying which blower is best for you b/c if you're happy with spending more money, and having less power capability go ahead and get the 1.7 KB. Honestly your plans for the car, and your driving habits a 1.7 may be the best thing for you. However - all the centri guys like myself know how to downshift though, and I still don't have any problems boiling my tires at my currently low power level all the way through second if I really wanted to, and I have 125K miles on my engine. I even put my 327's back in to help with traction already (and to get a lower highway rpm due to no overdrive ratio 5th gear in my TKO trans). I plan to join the 600-700 RWHP guys as soon as comp grinds my blower cams, by getting a built engine, and a smaller blower pulley - good luck wirth your decision, they are all fun as hell I'm sure - just depends on which one is right for YOU not what every 1.7 KB owner thinks he he. Sorry had to vent I'm tired of all the KB nut huggers putting the plenty capable centri blowers on the back shelf.

Also centri blowers are equally as easy to install. I did mine the fuel system, and intercooler in about 10 hours over a 3 day weekend by myself just taking my time, and I had never even seen it done before, and the instructions were not that great.

last thing 2V > 4V

Christian...were you bored at work that day?