Let us discuss turbo Mustangs (all welcome, especially turbo gurus)

realtripp

New Member
Mar 1, 2003
202
0
0
Ft. Madison, IA
I am starting this thread in hopes of answering some questions regarding the post turbo conversion of 2.3 Mustangs. I don't know if I should put this in the tech section or here, if it belongs elsewhere I am sure one of the Mods will put it there (please PM me if you do). I have a couple of questions regarding the performance of my 2.3T.

This is the first turbocharged car that I have ever built, driven, worked on, or even owned. So far I am thouroughly pleased with its performance over the N/A 2.3.

My engine is from a 1985 TC (completely rebuilt with 8:1 compression and a 2.3 N/A head with turbo valves), I am running #35 injectors, small VAM, PC1 ECU, E3 (uncracked) exhaust manifold, T3 turbo (.60/.63), a 91 2.3 roller cam, this all comes into/out of a stock intake and 2 1/4 exhaust, and I am running a WC Borg-Warner T-5. I am also only running the stock wastegate.

My first question is about how this is supposed to run. I have read all of the basics of turbocharging so I am familiar with it. My question is more about driveability. I begin building boost at about 2500 RPMs with full at about 3K. This will only happen if my throttle is depressed at least 2/3 of the way down.
--My car builds boost (2-4 lbs.) at very little throttle when climbing hills.
--The turbo lag is almost never noticeable to me, It either runs like my
2.3 N/A did or it is boosting. I may just not recognize the lag.
--Running half throttle at 3K=no boost only about 10 Hg(vacuum)
If I drop the throttle all the way there is almost instananeous full boost.
Is my car running normally or do I need to fix something. It runs reliably and is much fun.

Now for a couple of technical questions, I adjusted my TPS and got the base voltage set at .95 volts, the sweep is without hitch but the highest voltage I can get it to read is around 4.1 volts. Is this sensor bad and am I losing some of my top end power because of it?

Next, I was under the impression that not really getting on the car until it was warm was for the benefit of having warm oil going into the turbo to keep from siezing it up. My brother, who has experience with turbos from driving heavy equipment says it is more for the benefit of the manifold (to keep it and the mating surfaces from warping). I can see the logic of both, so I at least warm up my car to operating temp (one mark on the guage bare minimum) before dropping the hammer. Sometimes circumstances make it so that I don't have time for warmup/cooldown. I read a couple years back that driving it reasonably can make up for this.
--How reasonable is reasonably, I try not to run less than 10 Hg during these times, is this conservative enough to keep from damaging anything or should I granny it more?

Let us discuss these things, perhaps we can enlighten many with the knowledge that ensues. :cheers:
 
  • Sponsors (?)


First off, sounds to me like your boost is normal, I wouldn't worry about it.

Second, about warming up- I try to do that with my Turbo Coupe too, although I've always done it in regards to the oil (don't wanna go boosting like crazy on cold oil). As far as warming up the exhaust manifold goes, I figure it can't take more than a couple minutes of running time for the manifold to get up to temperature because that thing heats up quick! Anyway I like to try to get the car up to at least 160 degrees before getting on the boost.
 
About where on our stock guages is 160? Never have been able to figure that one out. I put a 195 degree thermostat in my car when cold weather started to hit and my car still does not register more than 2 marks above the bottom of the guage. It was 16 degrees here the other day. Am I looking at not being able to safely boost at all in the winter? Maybe I can fabricate something to really restrict the coolant until winter is over.

Thanks for your quick reply, I was not really too worried, just thinking that I might have set up the system wrong. I was(maybe still am) ignorant of how any turbocharged car is supposed to behave when working properly. I originally wanted to do a V8 swap but figured that for at least 4 more years of college decent gas milage and reliability of the 2.3 might be a priority. (My last 2.3 went 295K miles and still ran reliably when I got rid of it)

So, on another topic, how realistic is 200WHP with my equipment now. I have in the garage 2 intercoolers. One is from a 2.2 turbo Probe, the other from an RX7 turbo. I also have the BPV from the Probe. The Mazda IC has larger passages and has additional fins inside each of the passages and looks to be the better and least restrictive of the two. The Probe IC appears to look much easier to mount though, as the inlet/outlets are in almost exactly the right place. Ideas here.
 
glad to see there is another sucessful swap. Mine is going in as soon as the temp is warm enough to do so. I will have more or less the same setup but i plan to run a stock 87/88 TC motor with an Big vam, LA2, Stock t3, E6, stock TC front mounted IC. After the bugs are worked out ill throw on the bailey blow off too. I am really getting tired of the stock slow ass motor so i am looking forward to a big improvement. I just hope it all works when its installed. Glad to see yours in up and running.

Dr.
 
Warming it up before romping on it has nothing to do with the turbo...you should treat every engine this way...

You should really look into a good turbo exhaust system and an E6. How much boost are you running? I assume you don't have a gillis valve...you should get one.

The reason you don't feel the lag (which you already described above as "it either runs like a n/a or is boosting") is because your boost response is so slow...once you get some mods and you get instant boost response...you'll know what lag is.

That may have sounded confusing. I mean slow boost response as in the time it takes to get from 1psi-15psi when at WOT...as mods increase, this time decreases...
 
It has long been a habit of mine to warm up a car before dropping the hammer, I just thought it was especially bad for a turbocharger. Just like smoking is bad for you, but smoking around a leaky LP tank has the potential to be especially bad for you. :D

I am only running about 9psi right now Stinger. I want to get a gillis and run about 15, but I need better fuel delivery. My budget is rather short right now and I am still running only the stock 88lph fuel pump. I know that can be dangerous, but I keep the knock sensor plugged in and get no pinging or anything of that nature. I will ping everytime I boost without the KS in there.

So what you are saying about the boost time, Stinger, is that I build up to my 9lbs so slowly that the lag is evenly distributed and much less noticable. After mods come I should feel the lag and the boost would build much faster.

If it helps Dr. the only real bugs that stood out to me as a result of this swap were oil pressure and temp sensor. The oil problem was a result of the factory guage reading much lower than was correct and had me tearing my hair out until I got a mechanical guage and I saw that everything ran within normal parameters. The temp guage was a result of my stupidity/oversight. There is apparently a temp sending unit (to the temp guage), and a temp sensor(signal to ECU). I did not hook up the sensor and the car never read that that the engine was warmed up so it stayed in open loop and kept running hotter and hotter. I had to run the heater at full blast, the radiator fan, and a garden hose pushing cold water over the radiator just to get it cool enough for me to feel comfortable shutting it down. :doh:

Both of these bugs were a result of me being azzhatastic. If I had taken just a little more time/care with this project these "bugs" would never have manifested themselves.

Woodster, I will probably use the RX7 IC, fron mounted of course. It is a touch bigger, bigger inlet/outlet. There is just the factor of trying to plumb it. I will not install this until I do get the LA2 though, as I read somewhere (Here or TF) that running an IC with an ECU that was not designed for an IC'ed car is a bad Idea. The additional mods you listed were next on my list of priorities though.

It is coming along though and is by far the most enjoyable car I have ever owned. I really think the fact that I had such a hand in the way this car is now contributed greatly to that. Something about that sense of pride that makes you appreciate something more. :nice:

I hope this can help whoever may read it, as it has answered quite a few questions for me. I started this thread because there were some questions that I could not find the answer to in the tech articles or anywhere else. Thanks all for responding, your help is again appreciated. If this is beneficial to anyone else, lets keep it going.
 
so you just forgot to hook up some sensors and thats what caused you all that grief.. I will have to make sure and double check everything when mine goes in. The wiring is the only thing i am worried about. I have confidence in my ability to swap a motor, but getting the wiring right is gonna be annoying. Ill just have to be careful with it. Im not gonna end up doing a rebuilt motor at this point, but hopefully everything will run when all is said and done, it wont be the fastest turbo car on the board, but it will be a good starting point for mods.

Dr.
 
Here are some things that will get your 'Stang romping the streets much better:
- 255lph fuel pump
- Full 3" exhaust system
- LA2/LA3 computer and big VAM
- adjustable fuel pressure regulator (I like my Kirban)
- AT LEAST an E6 manifold (I would recommend a Rod, Stinger, or 40Bob one though)
- adjustable boost controller (TurboXS and Gillis make some nice ones...i've got a TurboXS)
- Better intercooler (the NPR one is supposed to be awesome)
- A better cam (A237, turbo walsh, or a custom grind)

These are all the things i've got (except i've got a Volvo IC, and I haven't ordered a custom-grind cam yet), and i'm hoping for at least 240rwhp 18psi.
 
Yeah Dr., It was just some unconnected sensors that caused my headaches.

The right way to take an engine out: Red_LX's way, disconnect and label.

The wrong way to take an engine out: My way, disconnect, yank, depend on memory wait about a year to put the new one in, constantly peruse shop manuals while trying to figure out stuff by trial and error.

PM me Dr. When it gets close to time to do the swap. I live four hours from StL and have many friends down there. I am always looking for an excuse to go down there and hang out. Helping a fellow stanger is a good excuse. Getting the experience of another turboswap under my belt is a good excuse too.

The hardest part of the wiring, to me, was getting it to look halfway decent. And also pulling some of the computer pins, I was scared of breaking them off, but no probs with that either.

BTW, my mom asked me about a graduation gift (just got my AA) and I mentioned a 255lph pump and an AFPR. Its cool to have a mom that once drove a 2.3 Stang. They understand the need for speed.