SVTdriver
Founding Member
DBMSTNG said:exactley.
Ford doesn't tune for hp, they tune for gas mileage and pollution.
I'm not sure that is quite true. But they do tune fo rmileage and pollution before hp.
DBMSTNG said:exactley.
Ford doesn't tune for hp, they tune for gas mileage and pollution.
TomServo92 said:Here's some food for thought: The 2004 Honda Accord V6 is tuned to make 240HP on premium but will run on regular. The computer detects the pinging caused by the lower octane and detunes the motor electronically. Do you know how much it makes in the detuned state? 220HP. 20HP less than in premium fuel mode. The tune everyone is talking about could very well be tuning the 4.6 for premium fuel which will allow you to run more aggressive timing etc. If it'll add 20HP to a Honda V6, I don't see why it couldn't add at least that much to the 4.6.
GinoGT said:I realize that the new car will have VVT and throttle by wire, but here's how I figure it:
I don't see any performance gains by doing whatever to the throttle. A wide open throttle is a wide open throttle, no idea where HP is going to come from that.
The only way you're going to get more peak HP from the VVT is if Ford doesn't have the timing tweaked perfectly for every last bit of peak power. Basically, making power from the cam timing will consist of bringing the amount of advance/retard closer to the "sweet spot" for the specific RPM than what Ford has programmed. If Ford is pretty close, then you're not going to see huge gains. If Ford is off by a good bit, then the gains will be better.
Bumped ignition timing is most likely going to gain the same couple horses and lb/ft of torque like it does now.
GinoGT said:I realize that the new car will have VVT and throttle by wire, but here's how I figure it:
I don't see any performance gains by doing whatever to the throttle. A wide open throttle is a wide open throttle, no idea where HP is going to come from that.
The only way you're going to get more peak HP from the VVT is if Ford doesn't have the timing tweaked perfectly for every last bit of peak power. Basically, making power from the cam timing will consist of bringing the amount of advance/retard closer to the "sweet spot" for the specific RPM than what Ford has programmed. If Ford is pretty close, then you're not going to see huge gains. If Ford is off by a good bit, then the gains will be better.
Bumped ignition timing is most likely going to gain the same couple horses and lb/ft of torque like it does now.
GinoGT said:I realize that the new car will have VVT and throttle by wire, but here's how I figure it:
I don't see any performance gains by doing whatever to the throttle. A wide open throttle is a wide open throttle, no idea where HP is going to come from that.
The only way you're going to get more peak HP from the VVT is if Ford doesn't have the timing tweaked perfectly for every last bit of peak power. Basically, making power from the cam timing will consist of bringing the amount of advance/retard closer to the "sweet spot" for the specific RPM than what Ford has programmed. If Ford is pretty close, then you're not going to see huge gains. If Ford is off by a good bit, then the gains will be better.
Bumped ignition timing is most likely going to gain the same couple horses and lb/ft of torque like it does now.
SVTdriver said:I'm not sure that is quite true. But they do tune fo rmileage and pollution before hp.
351CJ said:Dude, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the 2005 has MUCH better F/R weight balance (53/47 vs 57/43) than your Mach 1. As I've said before, any idiot who has ever been to a drag strip knows the first thing you do to make your car go faster in the 1/4 is to move weight rearward. Add to it the new 3 link rear suspension and we have the simple fact that the '05 GT will hook up off the line way better than any SN-95 Mustang. That's why M/T got a 5.1 sec 0-60 for an '05 Auto. Yes the Mach has more top end, but the '05 GT will be very close in speed to the Mach 1.
However I could car less about a couple tenths in the 1/4 mile one way or the other. The important thing is that the '05 GT will be a far better overall car than the '03-04 Mach 1.
And thank you for answering "My car is still better" challenge.
SVTdriver said:Time for a little reality check on the Mach 1 vs 05 issue. Does it REALLY matter? The 05 is a new car. It should be able to out perform most of the past mustangs. I know when I bought my Cobra. I was never told that Ford would not build anything better than it. There has never been a section on thier website. Where customers could tell them not to ever make a better mustang than what is currently available. I bought my Cobra and have been happy with it. Now the gt is making better power than mine. Am I arguing against it? Am I saying there is no way the gt can be better than my Cobra? No I accpet that this is a new car. And that it should be superior to what has been available. What sort of warped pride issue has Mach 1 owners arguing that the 05 can't be as fast as their cars? Do you want it to be a poor performer. And not have any pride in the mustang lineup other than your Mach? Mach 1 owners have a limited edition car. With a motor not available in the common gt without spending a lot of money to transplant. And one that is significantly better than the gt's of the same and many previous years. If I did not like the look of the 05. I would definately have bought a Mach1. And I congratulate all the people who did buy one.
GinoGT said:I think it's safe to say an 05 vs. Mach 1 would be a driver's race.
That being said, get some practice on those 60's before stepping up to an 05.
mach1dsg said:what sort of warped pride ?????
it is the fastest/more powerful 4.6L N/A mustang in stock trim to date.
wheather the 05 GT would outperform this car in the 1/4 mile or no, is yet to be seen. that's all i'm saying....geezzz
GinoGT said:I think it's safe to say an 05 vs. Mach 1 would be a driver's race.
That being said, get some practice on those 60's before stepping up to an 05.
Dan05GTOwner said:I agree, though the 05Gt and the Mach 1 will be very close power/speedwise, it will be easier for 05 owners to have consistantly good 60' times due to the improved rear suspension allowing much better hookup.
And, since launch can very often determine who wins the race, the average driver in the 05 might just beat the average Mach 1 driver.
This would make for an interesting head-to-head comparison. You know someone at the rags wants to do it too. I can't wait.
mach1dsg said:easy man...
answering the "My car is still better" challenge, i would say it again
better, yes,but faster??? ,i don't think so....
TomServo92 said:Here's some food for thought: The 2004 Honda Accord V6 is tuned to make 240HP on premium but will run on regular. The computer detects the pinging caused by the lower octane and detunes the motor electronically. Do you know how much it makes in the detuned state? 220HP. 20HP less than in premium fuel mode. The tune everyone is talking about could very well be tuning the 4.6 for premium fuel which will allow you to run more aggressive timing etc. If it'll add 20HP to a Honda V6, I don't see why it couldn't add at least that much to the 4.6.
BaronVonBigmeat said:I know the RX-8 (sort of a Ford, heh) runs terribly conservative (read: rich) in order to meet emissions goals and run on 87 octane.
Scot_94GT said:no...how you measure has no bearing on the value of your result. Torque is torque, no matter how you measure it. Imagine you have a canteliever beam with a wieght on the free end of it, and want to measure the torque at the point where it is fixed. You can either measure the force at the end of the beam, and multiply it by the distance from the wall, or you could put a strain gauge on the beam and back the torque out of the equations governing deformable body mechanics. They will boh yield the same result (+ or - any error). The only way the results could be marginally different is that either one method produced lots of error, or you were just measureing different things.
I am assuming that the level of accuracy and precision is fairly high for both dynos since they are very expensive items, and customers would not stand to pay that kind of money for an inaccurate measuring device. So the only conclusion I can come to for the differing HP and torque numbers is that the two dynos measure different things. Just like your analogy of rwhp vs. flywheel hp....the numbers differ by 20% or so because you are measuring two different things...they do not differ because a different method of testing was used.
So a more accurate version of my question would be not which dyno is correct, but which dyno is measuring the hp and tq that is most relevant to going fast?
Furthermore, what is the diference in what is being measured on each dyno?