Looking Into Building A Top End For My Rebuild

[2000xp8]

Honestly, i don't care what parts he has.
It makes absolutely no sense to rebuild an 86 shortblock with 86 shortblock parts.

IMO, the only choice here is the explorer engine, like i said 10 posts ago.
More power, no clearance issues for the future, cheaper, easier, i'm not even sure why he would consider anything else when money is an issue.

331, 347 yes rebuild/upgrade, anything else there just isn't a point in it.
Explorer engines are $500 and less, you can't even get all the gaskets, rings, and bearings for that much when doing a rebuild.

 

[JenkinsBS]

Gearbanger 101 - Ive been read up on thumpers heads, and from everything ive seen, they match flow numbers or perform better than the gt40x heads. I do currently have a set of his ported e7's, but these are from YEARS ago from when he first started doing his business outside of stangnet - new heads could be an option, however that will be the most expensive piece of the puzzle.

Rick 91gt - Im estimating my budget to be about $1500 in the end. Pulling an explorer engine from a JY sounds like it would be a good option, then looking at slapping this into it, a 331 stroker kit from http://www.stage3motorsports.com/pr...1/331-Ford-GT-Stroker-Kit-Flat-Top--50cc.html - Looks like its made by CHP, that kit eats up ALOT of what ill have to spend, so if I understand correctly, if i use a whole explorer motor, ill need to do motor mount modifications, and throttle cable modifications?

a91what - You are correct sir

 

[a91what]

If you buy a stroker kit you should not buy flat top pistons you need fly cut valve reliefs for ptv clearence. If you do a stroker just stroke what you have. OR get an explorer engine and slap your heads on it and cam the thing.

 

[2000xp8]

Gearbanger 101 - Ive been read up on thumpers heads, and from everything ive seen, they match flow numbers or perform better than the gt40x heads. I do currently have a set of his ported e7's, but these are from YEARS ago from when he first started doing his business outside of stangnet - new heads could be an option, however that will be the most expensive piece of the puzzle.

Rick 91gt - Im estimating my budget to be about $1500 in the end. Pulling an explorer engine from a JY sounds like it would be a good option, then looking at slapping this into it, a 331 stroker kit from http://www.stage3motorsports.com/pr...1/331-Ford-GT-Stroker-Kit-Flat-Top--50cc.html - Looks like its made by CHP, that kit eats up ALOT of what ill have to spend, so if I understand correctly, if i use a whole explorer motor, ill need to do motor mount modifications, and throttle cable modifications?

a91what - You are correct sir

gt40x heads are 10x better than any e7.
I've known guys with over 315rwhp with unworked gt40x heads on stock 302's, E7 regardless of work are only going to get you 260rwhp or so.

$1500 isn't enough to build anything.
My machine shop charges $1200 alone labor to take care of the block and assemble parts you provide.

 

[JenkinsBS]

Honestly, i don't care what parts he has.
It makes absolutely no sense to rebuild an 86 shortblock with 86 shortblock parts.

IMO, the only choice here is the explorer engine, like i said 10 posts ago.
More power, no clearance issues for the future, cheaper, easier, i'm not even sure why he would consider anything else when money is an issue.

331, 347 yes rebuild/upgrade, anything else there just isn't a point in it.
Explorer engines are $500 and less, you can't even get all the gaskets, rings, and bearings for that much when doing a rebuild.

Im not ruling out the Explorer engine option, im just trying to figure things out on what would be my best options - I mean, the car runs fine right now, s and gets, just blows a little smoke - Ultimatly I would be content with just fixing that (dumping codes this weekend), but if the whole engine is FUBAR, than yes, I need to figure out wether or not to rebuild the current engine with the parts I am able to reuse and purchase aftermarket where able, or go the explorer engine route.

If I go the explorer engine route, you mean find a running one as is, and throw it in and use it, or find one, rebuild it, and then toss it in? Because if $1500 isnt going to get me , I really dont know where to go now

 

[JenkinsBS]

If you buy a stroker kit you should not buy flat top pistons you need fly cut valve reliefs for ptv clearence. If you do a stroker just stroke what you have. OR get an explorer engine and slap your heads on it and cam the thing.

Looks like the pics in the stroker kit show as having valve releif, but i know the description says flat top, id definatly contact the place before purchase to discuss the specifics

 

[a91what]

I say stay within your budget i rebuilt my short block for 750 bucks.. But i did all the assembly myself. Got a used cobra intake off ebay for 150. and slapped on some headers for another 150. cammed it for 175. If you reuse your heads and most of the parts it is very possible to rebuild and upgrade what you have for less than 1500. this is a street car.

 

[a91what]

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/LRS-6009E/79-95-Economy-50L-Mustang-Short-Block
easy start with this add your heads, cam of choice and intake. less than 1500 bucks

 

[JenkinsBS]

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/LRS-6009E/79-95-Economy-50L-Mustang-Short-Block
easy start with this add your heads, cam of choice and intake. less than 1500 bucks

So that comes assembled, pistons, crank, cam, everything installed and clearenced and everything? Cause putting on an intake manifold, heads, taking old cam out and new one in, I can do all that.

I know that anything that needs to goto a machine shop (rebuild, stroker kit, ect) will be alot in labor, I know how alot. And if 2000xp8 is right, than a stroker is out of the question.

I have no problems keeping it as a 302 with an aftermarket customer cam, new lifters, rocker arms, then we would have to see how much is left over for new/rebuild heads

 

[RangerJoe]

You cannot do a stroker on your budget. $1000 kit, plus $140 balancing, then you need a harmonic balancer and new flywheel (because its a 28oz balance, not 50oz) block needs to be bored, decked, hot tanked, new plugs and cam bearings. Then you need head gaskets, intake gaskets, etc. It adds up very quickly.

I was in the same boat as you, with a worn out engine. I had GT40 heads on my old engine. I did the 331 and reused my old heads, cam and intake because I was on a budget. Its not ideal, but makes great low end power. I did all the port work and assembley myself. When it was all over, I had spent in excess of $2000.

Buy an explorer motor ($300-$500), buy a new oil pump ($40), buy a cam ($175), new springs ($150), some gaskets and fluids ($100) and some headers ($250). You're in $1000-$1200 there, thats almost your whole budget. You'll probably make about 300 flywheel horsepower, and have a reliable motor that you don't have to spin to the moon.

Joe

 

[JenkinsBS]

Buy an explorer motor ($300-$500), buy a new oil pump ($40), buy a cam ($175), new springs ($150), some gaskets and fluids ($100) and some headers ($250). You're in $1000-$1200 there, thats almost your whole budget. You'll probably make about 300 flywheel horsepower, and have a reliable motor that you don't have to spin to the moon.
Joe

Im worried about picking up an explorer mortor, just because its not new, it would be used, and telling if a used motor is in good condition - I feel like I may run into similar issues I am having now, with just things not being worn in properly, and making sure the motor was not abused to the point where ill have problems

If i get that new short block assembly from LMResto, pick up some explorer gt40p heads from an explorer from a JY, same with the explorer intake manifolds (idk what the TB size is, or if i can even use it), re work heads with springs, (if needed), valve seals ect (if needed), custom grind cam, headers (ill reuse stock if I have to), estimating it would be in the $1200 - $1300 range.

I understand that I can get an explorer motor for cheap, and it will come with the heads, intake, TB, all that good stuff, but bottom line is I want to make sure that the money I do spend is well spent.

 

[RangerJoe]

Im worried about picking up an explorer mortor, just because its not new, it would be used, and telling if a used motor is in good condition - I feel like I may run into similar issues I am having now, with just things not being worn in properly, and making sure the motor was not abused to the point where ill have problems

If i get that new short block assembly from LMResto, pick up some explorer gt40p heads from an explorer from a JY, same with the explorer intake manifolds (idk what the TB size is, or if i can even use it), re work heads with springs, (if needed), valve seals ect (if needed), custom grind cam, headers (ill reuse stock if I have to), estimating it would be in the $1200 - $1300 range.

I understand that I can get an explorer motor for cheap, and it will come with the heads, intake, TB, all that good stuff, but bottom line is I want to make sure that the money I do spend is well spent.

I can understand the fear of buying crap from the junkyard. However, the new shortblock alone is a $1000. A custom grind cam is $350-$400. That puts you at budget already...no heads or intake, springs, gaskets, etc. But I agree, spend your money wisely. You may can get it done for $2000 if you don't mind waiting and saving a little longer.

Joe

 

[2000xp8]

For the record, i trust original ford engines quite a bit more than a cheap rebuilt.
While the JY is always a risk, so is investing a ton of money in an engine that was built specifically to be cheap. You get what you pay for most times.

 

[stykthyn]

When you have it on the stand to put on the fox oil pan check the bearings and the cylinder walks. It will tell you all you need to know about that engine.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Im worried about picking up an explorer mortor, just because its not new, it would be used, and telling if a used motor is in good condition - I feel like I may run into similar issues I am having now, with just things not being worn in properly, and making sure the motor was not abused to the point where ill have problems

If i get that new short block assembly from LMResto, pick up some explorer gt40p heads from an explorer from a JY, same with the explorer intake manifolds (idk what the TB size is, or if i can even use it), re work heads with springs, (if needed), valve seals ect (if needed), custom grind cam, headers (ill reuse stock if I have to), estimating it would be in the $1200 - $1300 range.

I understand that I can get an explorer motor for cheap, and it will come with the heads, intake, TB, all that good stuff, but bottom line is I want to make sure that the money I do spend is well spent.

I paid $300 for my Explorer engine from intake, to oil pan. You'll spend at least that on the GT40 heads and intake alone and you're still on the hook for the cost of the new short block and gasket kit.

Like stykthyn stated. Get the Explorer engine on the stand, flip it over and inspect the bottom end...hell, you might as well change the rod and main bearings while you're at it and freshen it up. You can get a peek at the cylinder walls while you're there too and see what condition they're in and you won't even have to remove the heads. All you'll have to spend money on is upgrading your valve springs and your performance cam (which you were going to do anyway).

You'll save yourself close to $1,000....which puts a nice dent into saving for a supercharger, should you want more power later on down the road.

 

[JenkinsBS]

I paid $300 for my Explorer engine from intake, to oil pan. You'll spend at least that on the GT40 heads and intake alone and you're still on the hook for the cost of the new short block and gasket kit.

Like stykthyn stated. Get the Explorer engine on the stand, flip it over and inspect the bottom end...hell, you might as well change the rod and main bearings while you're at it and freshen it up. You can get a peek at the cylinder walls while you're there too and see what condition they're in and you won't even have to remove the heads. All you'll have to spend money on is upgrading your valve springs and your performance cam (which you were going to do anyway).

You'll save yourself close to $1,000....which puts a nice dent into saving for a supercharger, should you want more power later on down the road.

So it needs to come out of a 96 - 01 explorer, and they already come with the gt40 heads, right?

Ill try to talk the JY into letting me take the oil pan off while im still there at the yard to make sure that im not buying a POS. I would hate to take it home, get the pan off and find its ruined.

For replacing rod and main bearings, I will read through my Chiltons and Haynes manuals, but - how many of you guys plastigauge for clearance when installing, and is it a requirement?

 

[stykthyn]

Yeah its a requirement. My experience with explorer engines is that they are 80 percent of the time good to go with no abuse. The few that have issues were run low on oil our had severe sludge build up behind the pistons and in the lifter valley. Even with said issues the cylinder walls all looked good.

 

[a91what]

I have right now an 96 explorer shortblock sitting in my shed, i pulled the head off of it for porting and used my 306 shortblock i already had built. But, the 180,000 mile shortblock in my shed still held 30lbs of oil pressure at idle before i removed it from the wrecked explorer. The cylinder walls still look good with no lipping.
The gt40p heads on the 96 1/2-01 explorer engines flow very well. But, your Thumpers still flow better numbers than a stock gt40 or gt40p head http://www.carbdford.com/tech/flowdata.htm

 

[JenkinsBS]

Stykthyn - So if there is sludge behind the pistons, its a no go - If there is scoring on the cylender walls, its a no go, what else should i be looking out for? But if those 2 things check out, I probibly wont even bother with the bearings.

a91what - Same question to you, what should I be looking for when trying to tell wether to pick up the motor or not? And what is "lipping"?

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Sludge may just mean its been driven really easy its whole life, or that its had a few late oil chanhes. Scoring will tell more of a tale. Changing the bearings is fairly easy and should be done if youre going to have the oilpan off anyway.

"Lipping", is where the piston wears a grove into the top of the cylinder wall from excessive wear. You really won't be able to tell this unless you remove the heads though. The condition of the cylinder walls should give you a pretty good indication of the wear. I've seen engines pulled down with over 200K on the clock that still have the original factory cross hatch patter in the bore.

If you're going to go to the trouble of pulling the heads off, you may has well remove the pistons, give the bore a fresh hone and re-ring them while you're at it. It's cheap and relativley easy to do. A basic "rings and bearings" rebuild kit can be had for about $300.