Misc. problems

[Haus]

ok first off when the car is warmed up and you go to start it back up it is very hard to start unless you press and hold/pump on the gas pedal when turning the key. if you don't it will just crank till your blue in the face. and when its cold it will start right up. so i guess im having hard warm/hot starts problems.

another thing i have a problem with is when it starts right up or if it takes a minute or so is that the idle stays at around 1500 for about a minute and then slowly goes down to about 800-900 RPM. then if i rev it to 2,000 rpm it will shoot down to about 1400-1500 RPM and stay there for about 5 seconds and then go down to about 1000 RPM and then there for a couple seconds and then down to 8-900 RPM.

and when im driving or its idleling a gray or a white smoke is coming out the tail pipes and usally the ground where the smoke hits, there is a wet spot.

when smelling the smoke it doesnt smell like oil or anything. just smells like normal exhaust fumes.

anyone have any ideas.

1992 Mustang LX 5.0

 

[jrichker]

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/
OR
See http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/eec-iv_codes.html

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153 for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Walmart.

Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?3829 – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $35.

Look for codes 21 & 51, which are ECT fault codes. If you get them, replace the ECT. If you don't get either one, then post your codes and I will try to help.

See the sticky "Help me create the Surging Idle Checklist" at the top of the forum for help with your idle problems. The first post in the sticky has almost all the details you need.

 

[Haus]

ok ill check the codes. but i have another question.

is the canister purge solenoid connected to the smog pump. the thing im looking at is connected to that and right behind the alternator. looks like there should be a vacuum line going over it but there isnt one connected to it. could that have anything to do with my problems.

 

[jrichker]

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel.

It also eliminates the gas stink when the car is closed up in the garage or other poorly ventilated place. Don’t park you car in the garage if you have a gas fired water heater, the fuel vapors are a potential explosive hazard.

If you have emissions testing in your area, plan on re-connecting it. You won't pass the visual inspection without it.


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $20 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select boo...very good, and I found it to be very helpful.

 

[Haus]

well acording to that diagram looks like it could be the bypass valve. heres the picture i took of the piece that looks like it should have a hose over it but it doesnt.

 

[Haus]

TTT

 

[jrichker]

The item in your picture is the first smog pump bypass valve. See the diagram I previously posted.

The smog pump has two vacuum operated valves. The first valve either dumps the pump output to the open air or directs it to the next valve. The smog pump dumps its output at full throttle to save horsepower. The second valve directs the air to either the passages in the heads or to the tube that runs to the cat converters. Both the tube for the head and the tube going to the cat converters have one way check valves to prevent the hot exhaust gas from backing up into the tube and the control valves.

See http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88Stang5.0Vacuum.gif for smog pump vacuum line help

Here are some of the codes generated by faulty parts in the smog pump system and their fixes...

Codes 94 & 44 - Check vacuum lines for leaks, & cracks. Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve. The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.

The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheelwell turn the vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire. Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

Code 81 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM2. The secondary air diverter solenoid valve isn’t working on the Thermactor Air System (smog pump). Look for broken or missing vacuum lines on the solenoid valve to the diverter valve. The solenoid valve is located on the back side of the passenger side wheel well. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Lt Green/Black wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve.

Code 82 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM1. The dump valve air diverter solenoid valve isn’t working on the Thermactor Air System (smog pump). Look for broken or missing vacuum lines on the solenoid valve to the diverter valve Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Red/White wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve.

Putting the computer into self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle. This can be done either with a jumper wire or code scanner.

 

[Haus]

hate to sound like a newb but those diagrams look like giberish to me. lol

so the hose that goes over the air bypass valve goes into the vacuum tree on the passenger side by the firewall. heres a pic of my tree and even tho it looks like it but there is no vacuum line going into the tree and no line coming out of it so i need to know where to put that line that comes out of the tree.

 

[Saleen0679]

The vacuum tree should have four lines coming in and four lines going out. If you have the four lines coming in like I think I'm seeing and only three line going out then you've found where the missing line goes.

 

[Haus]

The vacuum tree should have four lines coming in and four lines going out. If you have the four lines coming in like I think I'm seeing and only three line going out then you've found where the missing line goes.

yeah there are 4 lines going in now that i look. one from the EGR, one from back of the manifold somewhere, one from the ACV and one from some valve thing looks to be on the fuel rail cause fuel comes out of it when you take it off. but on the tree there is 5 holes to put vacuum lines and 5 lines to come out.

where do i stick the line from the Air bypass valve cause there isnt one on it. but only 4 are in there and 4 are coming out. going in are all black. coming out are white, red, green and black.

 

[jrichker]

Maybe this diagram will be more helpful.

e following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Read the tech description of the Thermactor Air
System or smog pump I posted while you study
the diagram and it will make more sense.

 

[Saleen0679]

yeah there are 4 lines going in now that i look. one from the EGR, one from back of the manifold somewhere, one from the ACV and one from some valve thing looks to be on the fuel rail cause fuel comes out of it when you take it off. but on the tree there is 5 holes to put vacuum lines and 5 lines to come out.

where do i stick the line from the Air bypass valve cause there isnt one on it. but only 4 are in there and 4 are coming out. going in are all black. coming out are white, red, green and black.

I'm referencing from an 89, but only four lines are used. The fifth connector on the tree is not used. It sounds like you have the one for the EGR, the one going to the back of the manifold should coming from the vacuum tree under the manifold. The last two lines go to the Air Diverter Valve and the other should go to the Air Bypass Valve.

The valve looking thing on the fuel rail should be your fuel pressure regulator, but that vacuum line should be coming from the vacuum tree under the manifold and there should not be any fuel in it. Leaking diaphragm maybe?

It's starting to sound like someone might have broken the line to the FPR and just pulled the Bypass Valve line and stuck it on the regulator.

 

[Haus]

I'm referencing from an 89, but only four lines are used. The fifth connector on the tree is not used. It sounds like you have the one for the EGR, the one going to the back of the manifold should coming from the vacuum tree under the manifold. The last two lines go to the Air Diverter Valve and the other should go to the Air Bypass Valve.

The valve looking thing on the fuel rail should be your fuel pressure regulator, but that vacuum line should be coming from the vacuum tree under the manifold and there should not be any fuel in it. Leaking diaphragm maybe?

It's starting to sound like someone might have broken the line to the FPR and just pulled the Bypass Valve line and stuck it on the regulator.

interesting. ill def. look in to that.

looking again looks like that fuel thing im seeing looks like it should have a srew on cap cause theres threads on it with a little hole so im thinking a shrader valve. its connected to the fuel rails and that thing has a vacuum line going to it. so that line should really go to the Air by pass valve ans something should srew on that shrader valve.

and i do have a vacuum line going from the back of the manifold somewhere to the FRP, a vacuum line going from back of the manifold (right near that line to the FPR) to the tree and a line from the EGR to the tree.

 

[Saleen0679]

Do you mean the schrader valve right behind the alternator? There shouldn't be any lines connected to that unless there is a fuel pressure gauge mounted somewhere then the line should be going to the gauge not the vacuum tree. Otherwise the schrader valve is just capped off.

 

[Haus]

yep i just capped it off on going to put the vacuum line on the Air by pass valve tomorrow.

 

[Black1987Stang]

yeah there are 4 lines going in now that i look. one from the EGR, one from back of the manifold somewhere, one from the ACV and one from some valve thing looks to be on the fuel rail cause fuel comes out of it when you take it off. but on the tree there is 5 holes to put vacuum lines and 5 lines to come out.

where do i stick the line from the Air bypass valve cause there isnt one on it. but only 4 are in there and 4 are coming out. going in are all black. coming out are white, red, green and black.

First if u have fuel coming out when u take vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator, then ur regulator is shot and u need to replace that....its making ur car run RICH and is prob whats making ur car have hot starting issues and making the smoke......


the missing vacuum line goes to that front valve and connects to the black thing on the back of the shock tower....just follow where the vacuum line from the other valve goes to and do the same for the front valve but the line going to the black thing next to the other one

 

[Haus]

no, no fuel came out the FPR. a tiny bit came out the schrader valve when i took off the vacuum line someone put on the valve. thats it. none came out since i took that line off. so i just capped of the valve and tomorrow when i can see and can get to the store for more vacuum lines and a fitting ill put it on the air bypass valve.

the code scan that i did came up with a bad ECT so ill change that and hopefully that will help with my warm start problems.