MOTOR IN !!!!! Amazing, except a few things.

jetuomi · Apr 16, 2004

Well, the motor is done.. heads, cam, intake, t-body, maf, and all I can say IS SICK !!!!!!!

the car is amazing, at part throttle, its like the stock car (a bit more balls, tweecer says 13% load instead of 27% load).. but when you hit WOT holy crap.....

so yeah, a few tuning issues, stock program so far, with lower fan temps (Gotta lower some more even)..

other than that, it dies at idle, and I have duct taped the MAF to my cold-air (the MAF is way too huge).. and its a bit rich, 33psi AFPR pressure, with 24 pounders..

I can't even post my thoughts in logical order, I'm so pumped.. its a bit loud, but that's okay..

the FTI cam is sick, it pulls hard from 2500 - 6200 !!!!!!!!!!!

and timing is only 13* now..

anyways, dyno is coming soon, I'm going to adjust timing down 10* and use the tweecer to adjust all that..

SO, anyone know how to upload the MAF curve to this, I've got the pro-m flow sheet, with two tables of data..

So, gotta go cool down, I'm soooooooooo pumped !!!!!!!! (go eat some chinese food)

final5-0 · Apr 16, 2004

jetuomi said:
Well, the motor is done.. heads, cam, intake, t-body, maf, and all I can say IS SICK !!!!!!!

the car is amazing, at part throttle, its like the stock car (a bit more balls, tweecer says 13% load instead of 27% load).. but when you hit WOT holy crap.....

so yeah, a few tuning issues, stock program so far, with lower fan temps (Gotta lower some more even)..

other than that, it dies at idle, and I have duct taped the MAF to my cold-air (the MAF is way too huge).. and its a bit rich, 33psi AFPR pressure, with 24 pounders..

I can't even post my thoughts in logical order, I'm so pumped.. its a bit loud, but that's okay..

the FTI cam is sick, it pulls hard from 2500 - 6200 !!!!!!!!!!!

and timing is only 13* now..

anyways, dyno is coming soon, I'm going to adjust timing down 10* and use the tweecer to adjust all that..

SO, anyone know how to upload the MAF curve to this, I've got the pro-m flow sheet, with two tables of data..

So, gotta go cool down, I'm soooooooooo pumped !!!!!!!! (go eat some chinese food)

Several ways to go about it.

Tons of info about this subject on the Tweecer boards.

Later
Grady

rockin_rick · Apr 16, 2004

How are you determining what fuel pressure to run? I am also in the middle of doing the same project as you, and have been thinking about this. Did you just set it high initially to ensure not leaning out? How do you determine what FP is right? You would have to set this first before tweaking with the Tweecer, correct? If not, all your injector offsets would be messed up, etc.

I was thinking that the best way may be to enter your MAF data, usual basics (displacment, injector sizes, fan settings, etc) then get WOT to your desired A/F first (about 13.1?). Then determine your injector duty cycle, and then adjust FP to get the max duty cycle to around 80-85%. Then you could go and tune the injector offsets/breakpoint, tweak MAF flow, etc.

Is this a good plan, or is there a better/different way? I'm just brainstorming here...

Rick

94DreamGT · Apr 16, 2004

You got that right about the FTI cam pulling to 6200rpm...I'm still messing around with mine and have found the power doesn't want to run out. It's still going up to almost 6500rpm!!!

TrueBlue95GT · Apr 17, 2004

Well you probably don't have a seal where ur MAF is hooked up and ur gettin too much air in after the MAF. The O2 sensors sense that the mixture is lean and it tries to overcompensate and it gives the car fuel. So there's your rich condition.

Rootus · Apr 17, 2004

Congrats! Definitely need to get the fuel pressure up to stock, and the MAF curve dialed in, and the injector sized programmed with the TwEECer. Then it'll run like a dream. Start your tweecing with a J4J1 Cobra tune, and your driveability issues (like stalling) will all but disappear.

Zero Signal · Apr 17, 2004

Start your tweecing with a J4J1 Cobra tune, and your driveability issues (like stalling) will all but disappear.

What he said

jetuomi · Apr 17, 2004

rockin_rick said:
How are you determining what fuel pressure to run? I am also in the middle of doing the same project as you, and have been thinking about this. Did you just set it high initially to ensure not leaning out? How do you determine what FP is right? You would have to set this first before tweaking with the Tweecer, correct? If not, all your injector offsets would be messed up, etc.

I was thinking that the best way may be to enter your MAF data, usual basics (displacment, injector sizes, fan settings, etc) then get WOT to your desired A/F first (about 13.1?). Then determine your injector duty cycle, and then adjust FP to get the max duty cycle to around 80-85%. Then you could go and tune the injector offsets/breakpoint, tweak MAF flow, etc.

Is this a good plan, or is there a better/different way? I'm just brainstorming here...

Rick

FP was set at 33psi initially.. just a guess.. tweecer was tellin' me it didn't have to adjust too much to get the target A/F ratio.. (that's how I did it)..

yeah, in terms of setting up the "base" A/F ratio before tweecing, you're correct..

jetuomi · Apr 17, 2004

94DreamGT said:
You got that right about the FTI cam pulling to 6200rpm...I'm still messing around with mine and have found the power doesn't want to run out. It's still going up to almost 6500rpm!!!

actually, I'm saying 6500 rpm too now, my tach is so behind, when data logging I thought I was shifting at 6000, it was 6500 !!!!!! what a beast, its like boost kicks in at 2600..

(keep in mind this is the 2nd fastest car I've EVER been in my life, one was a 10.33 @ 138 91 fox)

jetuomi · Apr 17, 2004

TrueBlue95GT said:
Well you probably don't have a seal where ur MAF is hooked up and ur gettin too much air in after the MAF. The O2 sensors sense that the mixture is lean and it tries to overcompensate and it gives the car fuel. So there's your rich condition.

haha, don't tell duct tape that, their my first sponsor on this project.. haha.. tonnes of it was used, covering the lower intake manifold, wrapping the MAF to the inlet tube, haha... yeah, going to get that fixed with a ride to home depot..

jetuomi · Apr 17, 2004

HairyCanary said:
Congrats! Definitely need to get the fuel pressure up to stock, and the MAF curve dialed in, and the injector sized programmed with the TwEECer. Then it'll run like a dream. Start your tweecing with a J4J1 Cobra tune, and your driveability issues (like stalling) will all but disappear.

thanks !! THIS is exactly my #1 question, can I simply download the J4J1 program (I'd set it at program #2, for example, keeping my tweeced stock program @ #1) and that's it?? the program is that compatible that it simply "plugs and plays" ? I read a lot on tweecer forums (and will go post there as soon as I get the mechanical tuning out of the way) but nobody really said the J4J1 works out of the box..

w.r.t. fuel pressure, if its running really close would 6psi more just make it super rich? or does 1psi of fuel not really do much? I'm going to mess around with that a bit too..

I'm also throwing a code right now so I have to go lookup what that is too.. but almost there !!

tx for the replies !

but yeah, the rpm2 intake hauls ass with this setup.. dyno should be strong.. gotta go thank ed !!

94GTLaserRC · Apr 17, 2004

Glad to hear it. Maybe you can PM steve (smokinGT) he has been helpful to me!
RC

mto502 · Apr 17, 2004

Congrats Jani.
You sound as happy as a pig in $hit

Are you taking it to the track next weekend? There's going to be a few people there on the 24th.
I wish I had my problem resolved so I could run a few passes myself. I found out last week I'm running pig rich. 10.1:1 and touching into the 11's at WOT. No wonder I wasn't getting my trap speeds. I don't even care about the ET's at this point in time. I want trap speeds.
My 2 best were 13.66 @ 103.20 mph and 13.69 @ 104.6 mph with 2.1-2.2 60 ft's.

Head out because I want to see the new motor !!

I won't be taking mine out until I resolve the richness issue. I may drive it there though. It's only rich in WOT.

final5-0 · Apr 17, 2004

I would put the fuel pressure to stock settings as the pcm is making all adjustments based on the stock value. I don't have an afpr and I have been able to make a/f changes at low, mid, or high rpm ranges with no prob at the stock pressure.

You may already know this but you can save your datalog to file and throw all the data into LogAnalyst and you will see what is going on way better than trying to watch the screens in real time plus you can refer back to them if needed.

Your tach not being correct (mine is 400 rpm off to the high side) is not that uncommon as I have seen many say the same.

I would suggest making VERY small changes at first when working with fuel and then datalog to file to confirm your going in the correct direction. This is an area that you can do major damage and some of the file tags don't work like it would seem.

Later
Grady

Rootus · Apr 17, 2004

jetuomi said:
thanks !! THIS is exactly my #1 question, can I simply download the J4J1 program (I'd set it at program #2, for example, keeping my tweeced stock program @ #1) and that's it?? the program is that compatible that it simply "plugs and plays" ? I read a lot on tweecer forums (and will go post there as soon as I get the mechanical tuning out of the way) but nobody really said the J4J1 works out of the box..

Yeah, you can use the J4J1 almost as it sits -- you'll have to input the correct MAF curve (which Pro-M should have sent with the MAF), and the injector size. Other than that, it'll just be little tweaks.

Dave

rockin_rick · Apr 17, 2004

Your post has really motivated me to get mine done! I've been dinking around for a while now with this H/C/I (plus so much more) upgrade. Thanks...

Rick

jetuomi · Apr 17, 2004

HairyCanary said:
Yeah, you can use the J4J1 almost as it sits -- you'll have to input the correct MAF curve (which Pro-M should have sent with the MAF), and the injector size. Other than that, it'll just be little tweaks.

Dave

cool, I uploaded the J4J1, input my MAF, converted to 30 point, BUT, its super rich, I can't find the setting for injector size, all I see is high injector slope and low injector slope?

but I'm finding bette results right now with my modified T4M0 program.. strong idle, less rich.. @ 35 psi fuel !!

Zero Signal · Apr 18, 2004

all I see is high injector slope and low injector slope?

Yeah that's the injector size. The J4J1 probably has 24/24 or something, use the same injector slopes as the T4MO assuming you're using the 19 lb ones.

jetuomi · Apr 18, 2004

Zero Signal said:
Yeah that's the injector size. The J4J1 probably has 24/24 or something, use the same injector slopes as the T4MO assuming you're using the 19 lb ones.

I have a 80mm MAF for 24 pound injectors (and the 24 pound injectors, haha, my english is bad today just gettin' up from a good party, when you wake up somewhere you didn't expect to!?).. haha, anyways, got some new issues

(1) it heats up like CRAZY FAST, do you guys find that, is that to be expected with a higher hp car? I mean, from dead cold, to 180* in about 10 minutes.?

(2) its not as fast as it was (maybe I'm used to it already?, that would suck!)

(3) I think this is why #2 happened, the HEGO2 value (from my tweecer) is always in the top red, and my short-term a/f variable is 19.1, indicating super rich.. that is a strange one, but after driving for 30 minutes it figures it out, makes me think the o2 sensor is bad maybe?

I uploaded the J4J1, put in the MAF transfer, converted to 30 point, but, this program doesn't seem as powerful as my tweeced T4M0 (which now idles fine!)..

anyways, I think I need a dyno tune session for sure... other than that, sounds amazing, burns more gas, and, is pretty damn quick !! the perfect mustang..

Rootus · Apr 18, 2004

jetuomi said:
(1) it heats up like CRAZY FAST, do you guys find that, is that to be expected with a higher hp car? I mean, from dead cold, to 180* in about 10 minutes.?

Yes, even faster than that. Aluminum heads are why, they transfer the heat quickly into the coolant, so you'll notice the coolant temp getting up to normal faster.

(2) its not as fast as it was (maybe I'm used to it already?, that would suck!)

Normal to some extent, you'll get used to it and want more...

(3) I think this is why #2 happened, the HEGO2 value (from my tweecer) is always in the top red, and my short-term a/f variable is 19.1, indicating super rich.. that is a strange one, but after driving for 30 minutes it figures it out, makes me think the o2 sensor is bad maybe?

19:1 is not rich, it's **lean**. That's why it's red (rich is blue). You should see the O2's "switching" when the car gets warmed up and into closed loop. If that's not occuring for both of them, then you might very well have a bad one.

I uploaded the J4J1, put in the MAF transfer, converted to 30 point, but, this program doesn't seem as powerful as my tweeced T4M0 (which now idles fine!)..

All else being equal, the J4J1 is not as aggressive a tune as the T4M0, so if you change nothing but MAF curve & injector breakpoints, it'll be noticably weaker. But J4J1 has good driveability, which is difficult to get from T4M0. Now you need to start tuning for more power -- i.e. timing & fuel (would wait on fuel until you have the O2 thing figured out). I run about 36* total timing with my AFR's at higher RPM's, though that may be a bit much. Might try to get 34*. Listen for pinging and adjust accordingly.

anyways, I think I need a dyno tune session for sure... other than that, sounds amazing, burns more gas, and, is pretty damn quick !! the perfect mustang..

A 5.0 Mustang with H/C/I is just about perfect, this is the way they should have come from the factory. Not too much, not too little.

Dave

MOTOR IN !!!!! Amazing, except a few things.

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