My headswap nightmare: Opinions?

[Miles]

To make a long story short, I've had a headache for over a month because of my headswap / Parkway / UPS situation; I had received damaged heads thanks to UPS and have been waiting for parkway to receive reimbursement from UPS.

To make a long story short, I have 2 options form Parkway:

1.) They ship me replacement PI heads once they get their refund from UPS

2.) They issue me a refund for the heads based on UPS' reimbursement (approx $800 USD)

I have all the parts needed to do the headswap (minus good heads), and I have a set of VT Stage I NA cams waiting to be installed as well as the headswap.

What I'm wondering is what would be the best solution:

Take the refund and:
a.) buy PI heads locally from Steeda.ca, who are also doing my install for me, for $1,000 CDN ($900 USD)?
b.) Purchase Patriot Stage II heads for $1295 USD? <- leaning to this solution... would these go well w/ VT Stage 1 NA cams?
c.) Purchase VT Stage I heads for $1700 USD? <- not preferred, too expensive for me... but

Or

Get replacement heads from Parkway?

Let me know your thoughts... and my goal is to remain NA and hit 300rwhp.

Thanks guys

 

[DropTopPony]

I'd get the refund and go the P&P route since its already apart.Don't be like me and do a PI swap then decide 3 months later you want more...it'll save you money in the long run to do it now. Patriot seems to have the problems solved so go for it.

 

[Kronos]

why get pi heads when you can get so much more

 

[Miles]

I've emailed Patriot Performance, but would you guys see any issues using their Stage II heads w/ VT Stage 1 NA cams? SHould be a good combo for 75 rwhp, then add PI intake too...

Keep in mind this is a weekend cruise car that does not see the track (yet, lol)

 

[helty]

Get MMR Stage 1 or 2 heads. $1250 for Stage 1s, come with new valves, springs, retainers and cams. Since you have VT cams maybe they could knock the price down a little for you.

Click Products, scroll down to 2V GT/SOHC Parts, and they're right there at the top of the page. They flow 217 INT/ 185 EXH @ .500.

http://www.modularmustangracing.com/

Patriot Stage II @ .500: 213 cfm int 182 cfm exh

MMR Stage I @ .500: 217 INT/ 185 EXH

 

[Miles]

Patriot Stage II @ .500: 213 cfm int 182 cfm exh

MMR Stage I @ .500: 217 INT/ 185 EXH

I spoke w/ MMR, and they are very confident in their products. Shipping to canada is under a $100 USD which is very reasonable... I am thinking this might be the better route than Patriot Performance!

 

[sbc44]

I would definately go the Patriot Performance or MMR Route. Looks like they are very similar, so i'm sure either one would be great. I am planning on going the same route that you are sometime this summer, so be sure to take tons of pictures and videos if possible!

Also, since you said steeda.ca is doing the install for you, make sure they do a before and after dyno run to see exactly what kind of gains you get.

 

[Miles]

sweet, another free tech post

Spoke w/ MMR, and those guys are hardcore, wow. He said that I'd be fine w/ the Stage I's, but for the slight difference in price would be happier with the Stage II's.

No problem with clearance with the VT Stage 1 cams either.

And they package properly for shipping - wooden cage built around heads and everything

So I'm thinking it's MMR Stage II's for the win

 

[chimchim]

Tell Joe Charles from Parkway to get f'd if you talk to him. Same thing happened to mine 1 1/2 years ago. Only cosmetic damage, though. When I came home from work I was so excited to see the big box until I saw aluminum sticking out the side. Luckily, I only had a couple burrs that needed cleaned up. Nothing major, but I emailed Parkway and this Joe Charles dude responded with something like: OH MY, this has never happened before. UPS has never given us any problems. I didn't push the issue since they weren't mechanically faulty. The rest of the kit was stewn about inside the big, thin cardboard box, too. I remember my plugs were out of the 4-box cart and thrown about individually and the thermostat was "free" with a few dents in it. Those MOTHER EFFERS, anyway.

 

[TheSalad]

If things dont work out with the VT Stage 1 Cams..i'll buy them off you

 

[DropTopPony]

MMR is a good company also...I just bought one of their high flow oil pumps...If you didn't order yet ask if they will give you the Corral discount...i think its like 10%. They are vendors there.

 

[BurningRubber]

Get MMR Stage 1 or 2 heads. $1250 for Stage 1s, come with new valves, springs, retainers and cams. Since you have VT cams maybe they could knock the price down a little for you.

Click Products, scroll down to 2V GT/SOHC Parts, and they're right there at the top of the page. They flow 217 INT/ 185 EXH @ .500.

http://www.modularmustangracing.com/

Patriot Stage II @ .500: 213 cfm int 182 cfm exh

MMR Stage I @ .500: 217 INT/ 185 EXH

Ok, not to hi jack but what cams are used in their heads? I just looked at the site and thats a damn good deal for two ported heads that are complete with everything. Those Stage-II's are pretty nicely priced. Half of that cost alone is a good set of cams, plus add in the price of say Patriot's or VT's performance heads to match... seems like a great deal.

Tell me if im missing something, or else I might start saving some money.

 

[Mike97gt]

sweet, another free tech post

you have a PM

 

[helty]

Ok, not to hi jack but what cams are used in their heads? I just looked at the site and thats a damn good deal for two ported heads that are complete with everything. Those Stage-II's are pretty nicely priced. Half of that cost alone is a good set of cams, plus add in the price of say Patriot's or VT's performance heads to match... seems like a great deal.

Tell me if im missing something, or else I might start saving some money.

Im pretty sure its stock PI cams, but I could be wrong. Im sure you could talk to them about using aftermarker cams instead. You know, subtract the cost of PI cams and add the cost of Comps (they sell Comp cams) or VT's. The same could go for valve springs, or even valves if you really wanted, just have to call and talk to them.

Ive been eyeballing these heads for quite a while, the price is awesome when you compare they flow numbers to other more expensive heads. They dont flow quite as well as MPH stage IIs, (2.5 I guess) but they dont cost $2 grand either.

For comparison

MMR Stage 2: 227 INT, 192 EXH @ .500, $1399
MPH Stage 2.5: 235 INT, 195 EXH @ .500, $1950*

*should be noted that the MPH heads include Comp Springs. I dont know what they would cost with the same components as MMRs heads. Just a comparison, both great company's.

 

[Miles]

Alright, so to elaborate on some of the great points here..

The MMR heads include the regular PI cams in the price, and all components on the heads are brand new from Ford.

You can add aftermarket components (valves, springs, cams) but it is an additional cost with no discount - they pay a price to get the complete, assembled heads from Ford, so no opportunity to lower cost there. Even so, there prices are great.

They offered to upgrade the valves to permit more clearance, but with VT Stage I's they say I should be fine. Valves were an additional $250.

The person I spoke to was very knowledgable, but equally important, I could tell he was a Mustang AND racing enthusiast!! He was very confident in MMR products and their expertise with P&Ping.. he explained that they are not just CNC programmers, they are experts in making heads flow better and put down more power

So for the extra 100 bucks or so, the Stage II's are definitely worth it IMO.

Now if Parkway will issue me my refund...

 

[BurningRubber]

So these are just ported PI heads then, with stock valvetrain and cams... So a VT stage 1 cam or something equal (a smaller cam) would be fine with the fresh stock valvetrain..?

If its just a 45hp gain from the heads alone, wonder what a little cam would net..? Thats really not a bad deal... too bad better cams are so damn expensive..

 

[DropTopPony]

So these are just ported PI heads then, with stock valvetrain and cams... So a VT stage 1 cam or something equal (a smaller cam) would be fine with the fresh stock valvetrain..?

If its just a 45hp gain from the heads alone, wonder what a little cam would net..? Thats really not a bad deal... too bad better cams are so damn expensive..

I'm gonna have to call a major on the claim of 45hp gain from those heads....15hp is more realistic. I have just never seen any proven huge gains from 2V's NA with P&P heads.

 

[Miles]

MMR did say the +45hp was over the regular PI heads, and it is +45hp at the fly, no rwhp.

Even so, I think this is a good option for me since i have to buy heads anyway now. Gains from swapping from NPI to PI and then adding P&P, I should be a happy stanger.

Unfortunately, Steeda wont be able to dyno my car before the P&P headswap, VT STI cams and PI intake as the engine is in pieces... but I will post my numbers after they tune her up.

 

[DropTopPony]

MMR did say the +45hp was over the regular PI heads, and it is +45hp at the fly, no rwhp.

Even so, I think this is a good option for me since i have to buy heads anyway now. Gains from swapping from NPI to PI and then adding P&P, I should be a happy stanger.

Unfortunately, Steeda wont be able to dyno my car before the P&P headswap, VT STI cams and PI intake as the engine is in pieces... but I will post my numbers after they tune her up.

i think its good to add the ported heads also...just don't get them because of the HP #'s claimed...45fwhp minus 20% is still 35rwhp and NO WAY is that accurate except on a blown/turbo application but good luck, it will feel insanely fast compared to before the swap.

 

[Boosted98GT]

Tell Joe Charles from Parkway to get f'd if you talk to him. Same thing happened to mine 1 1/2 years ago. Only cosmetic damage, though. When I came home from work I was so excited to see the big box until I saw aluminum sticking out the side. Luckily, I only had a couple burrs that needed cleaned up. Nothing major, but I emailed Parkway and this Joe Charles dude responded with something like: OH MY, this has never happened before. UPS has never given us any problems. I didn't push the issue since they weren't mechanically faulty. The rest of the kit was stewn about inside the big, thin cardboard box, too. I remember my plugs were out of the 4-box cart and thrown about individually and the thermostat was "free" with a few dents in it. Those MOTHER EFFERS, anyway.

Wow, anytime I have ever talked to Joe he has been polite and a big help. Maybe you should have "pushed" the issue. It was YOUR $$$.