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  • SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech

My N/A air to fuel numbers

  • Thread starter Thread starter DrK MrK iV
  • Start date Start date May 12, 2004
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DrK MrK iV

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Jan 11, 2004
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Charlotte
May 12, 2004
#1
  • May 12, 2004
  • #1
I got my car dyno'd a few weeks ago. My air/fuel ratio numbers were in the high 10's/low 11's. My car is pretty much stock except for K&N/70mm mac tb, c&l plenum and catback. What do I need to do to get this to normal. N/A 04 gt should be in the 13's right? How much HP am I losing here? Pulls were around 230 to the wheels.
 

Go HoTO!

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Apr 11, 2004
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Mountaintop, PA
May 12, 2004
#2
  • May 12, 2004
  • #2
Sounds a little rich. I would say maybe as much as 10 hp based on your mods, but probably more like 7-8 hp. Worth a dyno tune, not likely for the cost.

My Ford guy tells me many run rich from the factory. Better rich than lean, I guess. Your car might respond much better with the timing advanced with it being rich.

Go to www.modulardepot and post this question under the SCT pre-order question section. If you have your dyno graphs, these guys could make a custom tune program for you that might really help which would be used with an SCT chip or flash programmer.
 
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DrK MrK iV

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Jan 11, 2004
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May 12, 2004
#3
  • May 12, 2004
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Alright, I'll register with them tomorrow. I plan on getting an Xpipe (probably O/R). I hear those make you run even more rich. Would a dyno tune then be worth it? The only other bolt on mods I can think of are pullies, x pipe, and perhaps the MAF-TB pipe (from densecharger or something).
 

Go HoTO!

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Apr 11, 2004
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May 12, 2004
#4
  • May 12, 2004
  • #4
Most guys with lightly moded cars like yours are only disappointed with their dyno tune results. If you were to add a C&L MAF, cams, blower, or something like that, then a dyno tune would be needed.

SCT mail order custom tune is really VERY good. They have data on thousands of combos. And they can be tuned later by a dealer with a dyno. I have the SCT programable flasher with three stored programs (including stock). If you add a mod that would require an adjustment, for about $75, they can give you a different program. You either ship to them to be downloaded (the programer) or they can email to you if you have the correct setup.

Check out the "Racers Package". More than you need probably, but fun to read about.
 

lwkauble

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Jun 6, 2002
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Ca
May 13, 2004
#5
  • May 13, 2004
  • #5
DrK MrK iV said:
I got my car dyno'd a few weeks ago. My air/fuel ratio numbers were in the high 10's/low 11's. My car is pretty much stock except for K&N/70mm mac tb, c&l plenum and catback. What do I need to do to get this to normal. N/A 04 gt should be in the 13's right? How much HP am I losing here? Pulls were around 230 to the wheels.
Click to expand...

Perfect comustion occurs at 14.7:1 (stoichiometric) so. if your car is in the 10s or 11s you'd have black smoke coming out of your pipes. way too rich dude. get as close to 15 as you can. but the question needs to be asked is: is that A/f ratio you posted @ idle or under load?? Find out what the a/f ratio is at under load. N/A under 14 for a non race motor is just wasting gas and hurting performance. You shhould be seeing a mil indicator at this point too. That is if you haven't disabled the mil. you'd be fouling the plugs at that point.
 
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DrK MrK iV

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Jan 11, 2004
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Charlotte
May 13, 2004
#6
  • May 13, 2004
  • #6
It was a mobile dyno, and it said under load. I do plan on getting cams within the next year. Would a MAF really help me out? I know they just lean that **** out. I guess I need to lean it out more though. Do I have a weak car, or is it just not tuned at all.
 

BlackBadGT

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Apr 20, 2003
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Pickerington, Ohio
May 14, 2004
#7
  • May 14, 2004
  • #7
lwkauble said:
Perfect comustion occurs at 14.7:1 (stoichiometric) so. if your car is in the 10s or 11s you'd have black smoke coming out of your pipes. way too rich dude. get as close to 15 as you can. but the question needs to be asked is: is that A/f ratio you posted @ idle or under load?? Find out what the a/f ratio is at under load. N/A under 14 for a non race motor is just wasting gas and hurting performance. You shhould be seeing a mil indicator at this point too. That is if you haven't disabled the mil. you'd be fouling the plugs at that point.
Click to expand...
Absolutely not. 15:1 is lean for the 4.6 liters. Ideal for an na car is 13-13.5:1. 15:1 and he'll see some high-end detonation. On a forced induction car, 15:1 would be catastrophic. Go get a dyno tune. They can pull some fuel and add some timing.
 
J

jas142

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Feb 11, 2002
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May 14, 2004
#8
  • May 14, 2004
  • #8
Ok guys, heres the question I always had because I fear that I am running rich as well. When you get a DYNO TUNE, you must also purchase a chip (like diablo for instance) for them to program the tune right? They can't "tune" it without a chip, correct?
 
X

XStanger

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Sep 1, 2002
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May 14, 2004
#9
  • May 14, 2004
  • #9
My 04' GT has the same issue with the a/f ratio. I was in the low 11's throughout the rpms all the way to 6k. The dyno guy said I had the a/f that a blower car should have.
 

smokin'Red35th

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Jan 9, 2004
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Las Vegas, NV
May 14, 2004
#10
  • May 14, 2004
  • #10
can someone explain the ratio to me? take 13:1 for instance, what is the 13?
 
0

03gtmustang

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May 26, 2003
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Northern Va
May 14, 2004
#11
  • May 14, 2004
  • #11
jas142 said:
Ok guys, heres the question I always had because I fear that I am running rich as well. When you get a DYNO TUNE, you must also purchase a chip (like diablo for instance) for them to program the tune right? They can't "tune" it without a chip, correct?
Click to expand...

I think you dont need a chip, at least I hope you dont. My engine light came on after my plenum and t/b install. Got the codes read and it said I was running lean. How long can I go runing lean before I start seeing problems? I think I am losing power also. Im planning on getting a tune this summer.
 
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jas142

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#12
  • May 14, 2004
  • #12
03gtmustang said:
I think you dont need a chip, at least I hope you dont. My engine light came on after my plenum and t/b install. Got the codes read and it said I was running lean. How long can I go runing lean before I start seeing problems? I think I am losing power also. Im planning on getting a tune this summer.
Click to expand...

Running lean is much more dangerous then running rich. When you run lean you risk damage to the engine, I would get it tuned ASAP. When you run rich you just lose power, risk fouling spark plugs, and lose gas mileage.
 
0

03gtmustang

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May 26, 2003
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May 14, 2004
#13
  • May 14, 2004
  • #13
jas142 said:
Running lean is much more dangerous then running rich. When you run lean you risk damage to the engine, I would get it tuned ASAP. When you run rich you just lose power, risk fouling spark plugs, and lose gas mileage.
Click to expand...

Thats what I thought, I was thinking about putting my stock plenum or filter back on so I could stop running lean until I get my tune.
 

BlackBadGT

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Apr 20, 2003
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Pickerington, Ohio
May 15, 2004
#14
  • May 15, 2004
  • #14
smokin'Red35th said:
can someone explain the ratio to me? take 13:1 for instance, what is the 13?
Click to expand...
13:1= A:F
13 parts air per one part fuel.
 

yellow5.0cobra

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Jul 25, 2002
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In the garage, On the floor.
May 15, 2004
#15
  • May 15, 2004
  • #15
Tuning shops provide you the chip...

Thats why it cost about $450 to DYNO TUNE you the chip.

After you buy the chip the first time thru the dyno tune, additional tunes to add ons are only about $225 or some nonsense like that.
 
J

Joel's98GT

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Jan 3, 2004
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central OH
May 15, 2004
#16
  • May 15, 2004
  • #16
BlackBadGT said:
Absolutely not. 15:1 is lean for the 4.6 liters. Ideal for an na car is 13-13.5:1. 15:1 and he'll see some high-end detonation. On a forced induction car, 15:1 would be catastrophic. Go get a dyno tune. They can pull some fuel and add some timing.
Click to expand...

absollutly agree with you, theoretically 14.7 is perfect, but because of air and fuel density, temp, and individual cylinders can vary. It's not safe to even get close to 14.7 most NA guys tune to 13.5-13 and many PA like to stay south of 12.5, on spray or boost a little detonation a can go a long way toward buying new pistons, among other things.
 
J

jas142

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#17
  • May 15, 2004
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I got my AF read yesterday cause I was getting horrible gas mileage and it smelled rich. At idle its around 15.1:1-15.5:1, under heavy acceleration it dropped into the 12s. Is this normal?
 

jstreet0204

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Jun 26, 2003
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May 15, 2004
#18
  • May 15, 2004
  • #18
jas142 said:
I got my AF read yesterday cause I was getting horrible gas mileage and it smelled rich. At idle its around 15.1:1-15.5:1, under heavy acceleration it dropped into the 12s. Is this normal?
Click to expand...
If it was read at the end of the tail pipe that is about normal. When you are not under load the EEC is in closed loop and tries to keep the a/f at 14.7. with my wideband mine bounces back and forth between 14.0 and 15.5 reading atthe tailpipe would cause the reading to be a little leaner. So I think you are pretty close to what it should be.
 
J

Joel's98GT

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Jan 3, 2004
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May 15, 2004
#19
  • May 15, 2004
  • #19
jas142 said:
I got my AF read yesterday cause I was getting horrible gas mileage and it smelled rich. At idle its around 15.1:1-15.5:1, under heavy acceleration it dropped into the 12s. Is this normal?
Click to expand...

what jstreet said.

totally normal.
 
D

DonLord

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Apr 22, 2004
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May 15, 2004
#20
  • May 15, 2004
  • #20
My engine light came on after my plenum and t/b install. Got the codes read and it said I was running lean.
Click to expand...

I have been battling the same thing.... my mods are in my sig, all done at the same time, are you running a similar setup?
 
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