My 'wimpy' Windsor

Calgary351GT · Jun 16, 2010

Spun my 351W powered 90GT (manual) on the dyno last weekend and it made a dissappointing 300rwhp.

I was hopng for at least 350.

Any suggestions as to what I need to do?

This is what I have.

-flat tops, around 10.5:1.
-Comp Cams Magnum 280H hydraulic flat tappet.(pwr from 2000-6000).
-AFR 185cc aluminum heads. 2.02, 1.60 valves. Factory CNC ported.
-Edelbrock Torker II intake.
-Holley 750 street HP dbl pumper carb.
-MAC shorty headers, flowmaster 2.5 american thunder exhaust.
-Full MSD ignition: billet dist, blaster II coil, and 6AL box.

On the dyno, my motor takes a nose dive at 6000rpm, which is where I run it to on the track any way.

My feeling is the cam and/or the intake is the problem, but my cam is rated right at the rpm range I run and can that torker II be hurting me for that much power????

KamiKaziDK · Jun 16, 2010

Torker II isn't the greatest intake, but you should still be making more hp than 300 at the wheels. That cam is small too, get something with a 550 to 580 lift and a more duration. I have that cam in my 289, other than that...what kind of clutch do you have? Think it might be slipping a little?

lancec2c30 · Jun 17, 2010

It looks to me like you need to revise your H/C/I setup for your engine. The thing just isn't breathing like it needs to. 185's are 302 heads, not 351 heads.

90lxcoupe · Jun 17, 2010

lancec2c30 said:
It looks to me like you need to revise your H/C/I setup for your engine. The thing just isn't breathing like it needs to. 185's are 302 heads, not 351 heads.

Couldnt disagree more, the heads are fine. They will make plenty of power and should be good for a 10 second NA pass if the rest of the motor was up to par.

Change those headers, shorties just arent going to cut it, get some 1 3/4" longtubes, the motor is choking on itself right now. If that were my car the list of priorities would be longtubes, 3" exhaust and a different intake, that should wake the car right up, if that doesent get you where you want to be then think about another OTS or even custom cam

rbonella · Jun 17, 2010

what he said....you're making 302 power cause you running 302 parts. Im in the same boat as you. I made 286hp 333tq on a mustang dyno in may. Im running gt40 heads/tubuler gt40 intake, and FMS B cam. I knew it was going to be low on power, but my motor was built in 1995 so those we the hot parts back then. Good news tho.....you have tons more power to be made, just not with that h/c/i package

Calgary351GT · Jun 17, 2010

KamiKaziDK said:
Torker II isn't the greatest intake, but you should still be making more hp than 300 at the wheels. That cam is small too, get something with a 550 to 580 lift and a more duration. I have that cam in my 289, other than that...what kind of clutch do you have? Think it might be slipping a little?

My clutch is a centerforce dual friction, 10.5". I think it's fine.

Calgary351GT · Jun 17, 2010

I don't think the heads are the problem. I've seen the flow numbers for them and the work just as well as the heads I'm seeing on all the crate engines I'm seeing advertised at 425hp.

http://fordmustangcar.com/repair-and-manual/small-b-ford-aluminum-head-flow-data
Mine aren't that far off the Vic jr's.

The difference I'm seeing is alot of those drate engines are running Vic jr. intakes with roller cams.

90lxcoupe · Jun 17, 2010

Your running shorty headers, start there then worry about the cam and intake

Calgary351GT · Jun 17, 2010

Thanks for the input.

I've already priced out some BBK long tubes and will probably start there and work up to the cam ($$$) if I need too.

The nice thing is the guy I know with the dyno doesn't charge too much and it's easy enough to pull some numbers as I upgrade.

tannerc91gt · Jun 17, 2010

intake needs swapped out. exhaust needs opened up big time. i personally think your carb could be a problem, but thats a debate that i wont get into. The 185s are a great head, no problem there.

89stang1 · Jun 18, 2010

tannerc91gt said:
intake needs swapped out. exhaust needs opened up big time. i personally think your carb could be a problem, but thats a debate that i wont get into. The 185s are a great head, no problem there.

i agree cause long tubes are not gonna get u alone where your numbers should be but a combo of a custom cam, long tubes, and whatever changes to get enough fuel/air to your 351 with 10.5:1 comp with AFR 185s that combo should make closer to 400RWHP than 300RWHP. My 333 with AFR 185s and 10.7:1 comp with custom cam .550/.570 made 364RWHP and 382RWT on a very stingy mustang dyno

Slatco · Jun 19, 2010

Suggestion? Go talk to Shannon at Western Motorsports. The dude is a Mustang legend. They are just outside of calgary.

saleen9973 · Jun 20, 2010

Change intake to a vic jr. Get a custom grind cam from ED. Long tubes a must. Good luck.

1993cobraclone · Jun 21, 2010

Calgary351GT said:
Spun my 351W powered 90GT (manual) on the dyno last weekend and it made a dissappointing 300rwhp.

I was hopng for at least 350.

Any suggestions as to what I need to do?

This is what I have.

-flat tops, around 10.5:1.
-Comp Cams Magnum 280H hydraulic flat tappet.(pwr from 2000-6000).
-AFR 185cc aluminum heads. 2.02, 1.60 valves. Factory CNC ported.
-Edelbrock Torker II intake.
-Holley 750 street HP dbl pumper carb.
-MAC shorty headers, flowmaster 2.5 american thunder exhaust.
-Full MSD ignition: billet dist, blaster II coil, and 6AL box.

On the dyno, my motor takes a nose dive at 6000rpm, which is where I run it to on the track any way.

My feeling is the cam and/or the intake is the problem, but my cam is rated right at the rpm range I run and can that torker II be hurting me for that much power????

Everybody is telling you to switch to long tubes but I doubt you will gain a massive horsepower jump just by doing that.

The problem is with your cam and intake set up. Also, make sure your car is tuned properly. And you don't need a "custom" cam to get 400+ horses out of a 351....lol

tannerc91gt · Jun 21, 2010

1993cobraclone said:
Everybody is telling you to switch to long tubes but I doubt you will gain a massive horsepower jump just by doing that.

The problem is with your cam and intake set up. Also, make sure your car is tuned properly. And you don't need a "custom" cam to get 400+ horses out of a 351....lol

larger diameter long tubes will be 10000x better than the 302 sized shorties hes running now.

A custom cam will net him much better results than an off the shelf alphabet cam meant for a 302...

saleen9973 · Jun 21, 2010

Its not like a custom cam is gonna break the bank I think they run about 125 bucks more than a ots cam. They are worth the money every time.

GTNBY2 · Jun 21, 2010

I think you might have a valve spring issue if youre falling off a cliff at 6000. Long tubes will help; ok different intake; ok 3 inch exhaust; maybe. even all of this combined isn't gonna be 100 horse which is what your missing. these issues with a little valve spring float??? the cam specs out at 280 duration with 512 lift if I'm lookin at the right one so it isn't realizing the true potential of the 185's with that small of lift (I also have a 351 w/ 185's with a EX274h 230/236 duration 519/523 lift from comp and a Trick Flow EFI street heat system). With a 750 carb you should have plenty of fuel potential if its set to the correct PSI. I honestly don't know much about the intake but I can't believe it would hinder THAT much. what where the torque numbers? Whats the timing set at? Is your 6al new or used? could it be dropping at 6 grand for some reason? I would think your hp and tq would be within a 6000 rpm ceiling anyway. What are you taking it to on the dyno pulls?

FoxEffect89LX · Jun 21, 2010

GTNBY2 said:
I think you might have a valve spring issue if youre falling off a cliff at 6000. Long tubes will help; ok different intake; ok 3 inch exhaust; maybe. even all of this combined isn't gonna be 100 horse which is what your missing. these issues with a little valve spring float??? the cam specs out at 280 duration with 512 lift if I'm lookin at the right one so it isn't realizing the true potential of the 185's with that small of lift (I also have a 351 w/ 185's with a EX274h 230/236 duration 519/523 lift from comp and a Trick Flow EFI street heat system). With a 750 carb you should have plenty of fuel potential if its set to the correct PSI. I honestly don't know much about the intake but I can't believe it would hinder THAT much. what where the torque numbers? Whats the timing set at? Is your 6al new or used? could it be dropping at 6 grand for some reason? I would think your hp and tq would be within a 6000 rpm ceiling anyway. What are you taking it to on the dyno pulls?

I agree completely with GTNBY2. As other members have also said, you're heads are definitely not the problem. You also didn't mention whether or not you had an upgraded mid pipe. Such as a non catted or catted X or H pipe. If you're still running the factory mid pipe with all those restrictive cats on there that will definitely choke the engine up something fierce. Again, exhaust alone will not free up that extra 100hp you seem to be missing.

Also, what type of chassis dyno is this? Is it a DynoJet or a Mustang dyno? The two differ greatly as far as horsepower readings go. The Mustang dyno is usually 15% less than the DynoJet and is said to be more accurate. I really hope you can get your combo sorted out. Let us know what the end results are.

fivepointNO · Jun 21, 2010

The FIRST thing I'd do is find a new dyno and try again!

90lxcoupe said:
Change those headers, shorties just arent going to cut it, get some 1 3/4" longtubes, the motor is choking on itself right now. If that were my car the list of priorities would be longtubes, 3" exhaust and a different intake, that should wake the car right up, if that doesent get you where you want to be then think about another OTS or even custom cam

That's about what I was thinking.

I'd get an RPM or Super Vic to replace the Torker II and I'd even consider tuning down the carb until you make other changes. At that power level, you probably have too much carb.

Many have mentioned replacing the cam and while it's like work, with a new intake ready for application, I agree with them. That cam is rather small for your application.

Short of a cam swap, a better intake and headers can help. It's actually surprising to see only 300 from your setup. I'd look into the heads and make sure they're working properly. Your car should easily be close to 400rwhp.

1993cobraclone · Jun 21, 2010

tannerc91gt said:
larger diameter long tubes will be 10000x better than the 302 sized shorties hes running now.

A custom cam will net him much better results than an off the shelf alphabet cam meant for a 302...

What I'm getting at was some people just don't set up the right combos. I'm one of those guys that tries to learn how to squeeze all I can out of factory parts.

A common mistake in racing is mismatching parts mainly by overdoing it with a big custom cam and such. You can get 300hp out of a 302.

Regardless, if he REALLY wants a real custom cam, he needs to get a hold of one of them the ultradyne cams.

My 'wimpy' Windsor

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