My 'wimpy' Windsor

[1993cobraclone]

Long tubes will help; ok different intake; ok 3 inch exhaust; maybe. even all of this combined isn't gonna be 100 horse which is what your missing.

Yup.

 

[gt40_2003wes]

sounds bout right to me power wise u have a combo that isn't near as aggressive as what your 351 needs with restrictions everywhere. theres no clear cut place to start but to tell ya i would just do it all over right with good parts. everyone keeps telling you the heads are fine but if you want the most potential out of that motor ditch them for something larger.

 

[tannerc91gt]

sounds bout right to me power wise u have a combo that isn't near as aggressive as what your 351 needs with restrictions everywhere. theres no clear cut place to start but to tell ya i would just do it all over right with good parts. everyone keeps telling you the heads are fine but if you want the most potential out of that motor ditch them for something larger.

itd probably be cheaper to have the 185s worked over to 205s than to sell them for a discount and buy the 205s

 

[gt40_2003wes]

itd probably be cheaper to have the 185s worked over to 205s than to sell them for a discount and buy the 205s

thats true and if afr's weren't so damn conservative on the exhaust side he may not have to touch them.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I don't think the heads are the problem. I've seen the flow numbers for them and the work just as well as the heads I'm seeing on all the crate engines I'm seeing advertised at 425hp.

Small Block Ford Aluminum Head Flow Data | FordMustangCar.com
Mine aren't that far off the Vic jr's.


The difference I'm seeing is alot of those drate engines are running Vic jr. intakes with roller cams.

Just keep in mind, that crate engines are rated on an engine dyno, with no accessories. That's about a 30% loss by the time it makes its way to the rear wheels.

 

[tannerc91gt]

thats true and if afr's weren't so damn conservative on the exhaust side he may not have to touch them.

IMO theyre a great out-of-the-box head, but theres always room for improvement. My friend has 185s on his drag car that have been worked to 205+ and it SCREAMS.

 

[Calgary351GT]

I agree completely with GTNBY2. As other members have also said, you're heads are definitely not the problem. You also didn't mention whether or not you had an upgraded mid pipe. Such as a non catted or catted X or H pipe. If you're still running the factory mid pipe with all those restrictive cats on there that will definitely choke the engine up something fierce. Again, exhaust alone will not free up that extra 100hp you seem to be missing.

Also, what type of chassis dyno is this? Is it a DynoJet or a Mustang dyno? The two differ greatly as far as horsepower readings go. The Mustang dyno is usually 15% less than the DynoJet and is said to be more accurate. I really hope you can get your combo sorted out. Let us know what the end results are.

The mid-pipe is MAC X-pipe with no cats.
The dyno is a Dyno Dynamics. Supposed to pull similar numbers as a Mustang.

 

[Calgary351GT]

I agree completely with GTNBY2. As other members have also said, you're heads are definitely not the problem. You also didn't mention whether or not you had an upgraded mid pipe. Such as a non catted or catted X or H pipe. If you're still running the factory mid pipe with all those restrictive cats on there that will definitely choke the engine up something fierce. Again, exhaust alone will not free up that extra 100hp you seem to be missing.

Also, what type of chassis dyno is this? Is it a DynoJet or a Mustang dyno? The two differ greatly as far as horsepower readings go. The Mustang dyno is usually 15% less than the DynoJet and is said to be more accurate. I really hope you can get your combo sorted out. Let us know what the end results are.

The mid-pipe is MAC X-pipe with no cats.
The dyno is a Dyno Dynamics. Supposed to pull similar numbers as a Mustang.

 

[90lxcoupe]

Just keep in mind, that crate engines are rated on an engine dyno, with no accessories. That's about a 30% loss by the time it makes its way to the rear wheels.

Id say that figure is way inflated, that would mean that a 440 horse motor on the dyno makes 308 to the tire. With a typical manual transmission and depending on the accesories its 12-20%

My real world (not a statisical internet fantasy world) example of this is that my motor mad 440 hp on a engine dyno and when i put it in the car with it made 388 hp to the wheels, which makes for about 12% loss thru the accesories and drivetrain

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Id say that figure is way inflated, that would mean that a 440 horse motor on the dyno makes 308 to the tire. With a typical manual transmission and depending on the accesories its 12-20%

My real world (not a statisical internet fantasy world) example of this is that my motor mad 440 hp on a engine dyno and when i put it in the car with it made 388 hp to the wheels, which makes for about 12% loss thru the accesories and drivetrain

The amount of loss will vary slightly depending on the drivetrain configuration. Also higher horsepower engines seem less suceptible to drivetrain loss than lower horsepower engines, but we're talking a difference of 5% maximum here. Drivetrain loss alone is typically anywhere from 13-20% depending on the transmission and rear end configuration alone, so I'm not sure how you figure a loss of only 12-20% with drivetrain and accesories both? A swap to an electric water pump on a modular engine alone has shown as much as 8-12rwhp on a chassis dyno and these engines are tested not only without a waterpump, but A/C, polution controls, alternator, or power steering as well.

...and your math is a little off. An engine that measured 440hp on an engine dyno, experiencing a 30% loss through the drivetrain and accesories would make closer to 338rwhp, not 308 (440/1.30=338.46) Even if we ran a little more on the conservative side and called the loss at 25% through the drivetrain and accesories, you're only adding another 12hp to that figure.

 

[90lxcoupe]

30% of 440 is 132. 440-132 is 308, what am i missing here?

 

[tannerc91gt]

Gearbanger math > standard math

 

[Gearbanger 101]

30% of 440 is 132. 440-132 is 308, what am i missing here?

Apparently it was I who missed a few math classes in high school.

I was going the other way adding 30% to the rwhp number, instead of subtracting 30% from the engine dyno number.

....but the percentage loss is still accurate based on everything I've seen. Like I said, it varies depending on drivetrain components and horsepower levels, but only a 12% loss from engine stand to chassis dyno is way low.

Gearbanger math > standard math

 

[tmoss]

The Torker would be near the bottom of my list of intakes to use.......

 

[90lxcoupe]

at the end of the day dyno numbers dont mean much to me, its good to have a ballpark idea, but there are so many varibles that affect them, that id rather have a timeslip to show what the car is capable of. you cant fake it at the track

Its like the guys at the gym that can bench 350 lbs but couldnt carry a sofa up a staircase to save thier lives, just a number to brag about sometimes

 

[NIKwoaC]

Its like the guys at the gym that can bench 350 lbs but couldnt carry a sofa up a staircase to save thier lives, just a number to brag about sometimes

Well duh, it would be a shame to mess up that perfectly bleached faux hawk or scuff up his spray tan.

 

[Calgary351GT]

at the end of the day dyno numbers dont mean much to me, its good to have a ballpark idea, but there are so many varibles that affect them, that id rather have a timeslip to show what the car is capable of. you cant fake it at the track

Its like the guys at the gym that can bench 350 lbs but couldnt carry a sofa up a staircase to save thier lives, just a number to brag about sometimes

I just think using dyno numbers to benchmark your build to another is WAY easier than using the track which brings a bunch more variables into the equation.

ie: -car, weight, suspension setup, tires, gear, elevation, driving ability.

I just want an idea of where my engine should be, and I don't think it's anywhere close to that.