Narrowed it down to 2 combo's,need Help!

willys1

Active Member
Dec 2, 2003
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New Jersey
Need some input guys for my winter project,either afr 165's and an intake(with stock cam) or Thumper heads and the ft1 cam(I already have a t-moss lower) The Thumper combo will be alot cheaper,but Im thinkin the afr combo will be quicker even with the stock cam!! Any suggestions would be appreciated,Thanks!
 
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OH NO, I hope this won't turn to a dreaded AFR vs. Thumper thread!

Thumper's will be cheaper, and you could do more and end up a little quicker but with the AFR's you will have more growing room. When I did the thumper's, I did the Edelbrock intake, 1.7RR's on the stock cam, and throttlebody, made a huge difference.

Here is my opinion based on going to the track, as well as some off-track action. I have not been convinced that AFR's are that great. I know some of the fastest NMRA title-holders are running AFR's, but there are other factors. IOW, AFR's are a nice page in the book but not the whole story. If I could do it all over again, I would have gotten AFR's but I doubt I would have been as happy with it at the time. I have my heads off right now, the only thing that is making me want to swap is the weight, otherwise I don't think they are worth the money. Maby down the line when I have more stroke or something pushing air in there, I will swap.
 
Excellent post 90mustanggt. I think that you are the only person that can answer the question willy. What are your plans for the car? If you don't think you will be making the power to warrant shelling out the coin for heads, save the money.
 
90mustangGT said:
Thumper's will be cheaper, and you could do more and end up a little quicker but with the AFR's you will have more growing room. When I did the thumper's, I did the Edelbrock intake, 1.7RR's on the stock cam, and throttlebody, made a huge difference.

Here is my opinion based on going to the track, as well as some off-track action. I have not been convinced that AFR's are that great. I know some of the fastest NMRA title-holders are running AFR's, but there are other factors. IOW, AFR's are a nice page in the book but not the whole story. If I could do it all over again, I would have gotten AFR's but I doubt I would have been as happy with it at the time. I have my heads off right now, the only thing that is making me want to swap is the weight, otherwise I don't think they are worth the money. Maby down the line when I have more stroke or something pushing air in there, I will swap.
Thanks,,these are the answers Im looking for!!Was it really a night and day difference with the heads?Which Edelbrock,,Performer? I was thinking of the street heat with the afr's.Any track times?Dyno? How is your gas mileage,any different?
 
I have the Thumper heads (stock valve sizes and heavy duty springs) with a Comp Cams XE270HR-14 cam and it's gotten this 3800+ pound pig down the track pretty quick for what it is.

When I first took the car to the track and it ran slower than the old motor's times, I was convinced I needed better heads and would tell all the guys that I think I'm gonna go get some AFR 165s.

As the car sits now, it's 1 second and 9mph quicker than the old motor. I gotta believe that the weight difference between my car and a Mustang would put a Stang in the high 12's with this set-up.

Good luck with the new build, man. Maybe I'll catch ya at E-Town next season. :nice:
 
NYC LSC said:
I have the Thumper heads (stock valve sizes and heavy duty springs) with a Comp Cams XE270HR-14 cam and it's gotten this 3800+ pound pig down the track pretty quick for what it is.

When I first took the car to the track and it ran slower than the old motor's times, I was convinced I needed better heads and would tell all the guys that I think I'm gonna go get some AFR 165s.

As the car sits now, it's 1 second and 9mph quicker than the old motor. I gotta believe that the weight difference between my car and a Mustang would put a Stang in the high 12's with this set-up.

Good luck with the new build, man. Maybe I'll catch ya at E-Town next season. :nice:
Thanks!,they have a 5.0 shoot out in April(well,they did this year) I will be there again :nice:
 
willys1 said:
Thanks,,these are the answers Im looking for!!Was it really a night and day difference with the heads?Which Edelbrock,,Performer? I was thinking of the street heat with the afr's.Any track times?Dyno? How is your gas mileage,any different?

It was definatly a night and day difference. I did the Accufab 70mm TB+EGR, Performer Intake, Thumper's with spring upgrade, and 1.7RR's on the stock cam all at once. At first I had the stock TB choking off the combo, there was still a difference but when the TB finnally came it really woke up. The stock TB couldn't feed it I guess. Right from the punch all the way to the top. A buddy of mine who we were dead even before I pulled so hard I felt sorry for him. I would let him jump so I would then just press down the gas and drive away. I have a buddy with a combo similar to mine except he has the TFS Stage I cam and AFR 165's, goes by GaBoy90LX on corral (doesn't post much) and we were even on a highway run. I never did dyno it but my track times are in my sig, 8.4 at 85mph on a 1.8 60 ft launching at 1800 rpm on a rough track. Most people running those 1/8th times run high 12's to low 13's in the 1/4. Never did dyno it. I had bad leakdown also, rebuilding motor right now and doing more weight reduction, going to send the heads back to Thumper for the GT40 valvetrain upgrade. Gas milege was uneffected.
 
When i had my thumper combo it really woke my car up, thumper heads, typhoon intake, anderson N41 cam, 65mm tb. But i bent a few valves on them an tossed them to the side of my garage, so i opted for some performer RPM's an they makes alittle more hp an torque then my thumpers did. With the thumpers i think i might have got about the same time in my sig. but there wouldn't have been much room to grow. There's TONS more room to grow on my performer combo that time in my sig was untuned with 14* of timing. It woulda been an easy 12.9x to a 13.00 if i coulda got my 60' down to a 2.0

Honestly if your not looking for every bit of HP you can find outta the motor a good off the shelf cam will work good, i was going to go with an FTI cam but 300 bucks an wanted me to buy springs an such so i woulda had 600-700 bucks rapped up in a cam and switching valve springs, I ended up keeping my N41 an i'm happy with the results.
 
Hmm...it is kind of a tough choice between the two...

I would go for the AFR option personally...because less weight and more room to grow and you can throw in a FTI cam later on for under 400 bucks (cam/timing chain)...but the stock cam will also keep things "in check" to the computer and all...

You also have to think about a/f ratio and bigger injectors would be something you should look into with either combo your going with...

Its all up to you... :nice:
 
89tang: you need some traction or something. That is another point, power is useless if you can't get it to the ground. 25thmustang is running unported e7's with the GT40 valvetrain and is running high 12's with street tires and mid 12's with slicks. All on a full weight car. I am wondering what both ported and re-valved E7's with lots of weight reduction could run. I guess we'll just see next season.

A OTS cam such as a Comp cam will cost you in the mid $200, a few extra bucks and get a custom sounds like it might be worth it. A buddy of mine paid only $50 extra for a custom torque converter in his camaro.
 
90mustangGT said:
89tang: you need some traction or something. That is another point, power is useless if you can't get it to the ground. 25thmustang is running unported e7's with the GT40 valvetrain and is running high 12's with street tires and mid 12's with slicks. All on a full weight car. I am wondering what both ported and re-valved E7's with lots of weight reduction could run. I guess we'll just see next season.

A OTS cam such as a Comp cam will cost you in the mid $200, a few extra bucks and get a custom sounds like it might be worth it. A buddy of mine paid only $50 extra for a custom torque converter in his camaro.

Yeap traction was an issue that day, i had to idle it outta the hole pretty much an i was spinning through 3rd if i got on it hard. I didn't DR's or nothing. High 12's on street tires with untouched E7's, possible with the right stuff. Also his car made 272/316 which is crazy i think for have unported E7's.

I never really seen a point in custom cams myself unless your a hardcore drag racer. But that's me an i'm always changing my stuff so what's the use in a custom cam if i change the combo my cam is no longer custom made for the motor.
 
willys1 said:
Which Edelbrock,,Performer? I was thinking of the street heat with the afr's.Any track times?Dyno? How is your gas mileage,any different?

Whatever intake you use, be sure to mock up the lower intake with the AFR heads and see if porting will be beneficial. In most cases it is. A customer of mine recently switched from a ported Explorer to an RPMII and lost torque and HP across the board, then switched back to the Explorer. The 165 heads really seem to respond well to a mid-size runner cross section.
 
89tang said:
High 12's on street tires with untouched E7's, possible with the right stuff. Also his car made 272/316 which is crazy i think for have unported E7's.

OK...
I'll bite...
What cam/intake/carb/tb/shortblock was this car running.
 
89tang said:
Well like 90mustang said it's stock unported heads with a GT-40 valvetrain, stock cam stock shortblock stock suspension. See how i find it crazy :D

just realized we are talking about '25thmustang's car.
I missed the GT40 valvetrain comments.
Yes, impressive combo, running cobra intakes, and running the Factory Stock class...
He's obviously taken the time to learn/tune the combo.
I think he's going to 4.10's from 3.73's... watch those et's drop even further.

For the original poster...
Keep in mind 25thmustang's E7's are not Thumpers E7's.

Unless you have some strange love for stock heads, i think you'd be happier with the afr's.
Me, I have the strange love, so, I'll be running worked over E7's, but, I have no misconceptions that afr's have the potential to make more power and remain more street friendly at the same time.

Good luck.
 
cleanLX said:
For the original poster...
Keep in mind 25thmustang's E7's are not Thumpers E7's.

Unless you have some strange love for stock heads, i think you'd be happier with the afr's.
Me, I have the strange love, so, I'll be running worked over E7's, but, I have no misconceptions that afr's have the potential to make more power and remain more street friendly at the same time.

Good luck.

Yup i can see he's put alot of time into that combo to get it where it's at.

But i also think most ppl. like myself aren't going to get a stock headed stock cammed mustang that fast.