Progress Thread Nasty Ninety Notch

joetrainer31 · Jul 12, 2015

mikestang63 said:
joe, not a big fan of those print o seal intake gaskets. They leak like a strainer. I would get some 1250s or 1262s gaskets. but that is just me.

Mike,

I usually use the 1250s, but Ford called for this particular gasket set with these heads. Also, the 1250s look the same material wise as these -just smaller. Am I missing what you are saying about these gaskets?

mikestang63 · Jul 12, 2015

joetrainer31 said:
Mike,

I usually use the 1250s, but Ford called for this particular gasket set with these heads. Also, the 1250s look the same material wise as these -just smaller. Am I missing what you are saying about these gaskets?

yeah. those gaskets leak. The S gaskets have steel reinforcement around the ports to keep them from deforming.

Chuckman · Jul 12, 2015

to be clear, the 1250s3 and 1262s3 is the steel-cored version that is friggin awesome (still not as good as the stock-replacement fel-pro's, but those are sized for the tiny e7's).

also keep the arp's, toss the frpp bolts. the arp's are reusable, the frpp are probably the torque-to-yield crap they started putting on the later 5.0's (most parts like that from frpp come from the o.e. source)

joetrainer31 · Jul 12, 2015

Chuckman said:
to be clear, the 1250s3 and 1262s3 is the steel-cored version that is friggin awesome (still not as good as the stock-replacement fel-pro's, but those are sized for the tiny e7's).

also keep the arp's, toss the frpp bolts. the arp's are reusable, the frpp are probably the torque-to-yield crap they started putting on the later 5.0's (most parts like that from frpp come from the o.e. source)

Yes, the X307s are high port heads thus the gaskets. So you prefer the ARP? I do too, but read the instructions for the other bolts. I'm a bit gun shy because of all the set backs. I was wanting to follow the directions exactly. I guess we will see what I end up with. Thanks gents!

joetrainer31 · Jul 16, 2015

UPDATE: The new heads are going on!

I't won't be long before we have a fully operational Death Star.

(recap: GT40 X307 heads, Crane 1.7RRs, FRPP hardened push rods)

needstlc · Jul 18, 2015

Can't wait to see this done. It reminds me how much I wish I could build my 89.
Good luck

FoxMustangLvr · Jul 18, 2015

needstlc said:
Can't wait to see this done. It reminds me how much I wish I could build my 89.
Good luck

Why wish? Do it!!!!

FoxMustangLvr · Jul 18, 2015

joetrainer31 said:
UPDATE: The new heads are going on!

I't won't be long before we have a fully operational Death Star.

(recap: GT40 X307 heads, Crane 1.7RRs, FRPP hardened push rods)

Good job Bro!! Remember to put RTV where the block meets the heads in all 4 corners!! What cam you got again??

needstlc · Jul 18, 2015

FoxMustangLvr said:
Why wish? Do it!!!!

Cause I'm 20 with a car payment and a bike that needs work.
I have big dreams for my mustang and I don't wanna do it tell I can do it right.

FoxMustangLvr · Jul 18, 2015

needstlc said:
I have big dreams for my mustang and I don't wanna do it tell I can do it right.

With this knowledge you are already ahead of the game. It takes time, money and patience for everyone to get the end result. I'm not even half way there and I make decent $ but have 3 kids.

What do you have? Maybe start your own progress thread with a couple pics of your Fox.

joetrainer31 · Jul 19, 2015

FoxMustangLvr said:
Good job Bro!! Remember to put RTV where the block meets the heads in all 4 corners!! What cam you got again??

Yep, we are using RTV for sure. I'm running a stock cam with 1.7RRs. The smog techs gave me a hard time with the last build that had an E cam -even though it is 50 state LEGAL. I'd come rollin up and they would just shake their heads. Didn't even care to see the CARB #.

joetrainer31 · Jul 24, 2015

UPDATE: A Mystery for the Masses.

This car (i.e., Old Blue) has defied completion once again. This time it gave us a mystery problem. After much research and testing we figured out the problem, but for fun maybe you all would like to take a stab at it. It wouldn't cost y'all any valuable time or money like it did me. So, here goes:

For those of you keeping track this is the 4th time this car is going back together...

Took a little extra time to reroute the ACT Sensor where it belongs since I don't drive on the surface of Mars (i.e., intake runner #5).

Our tech Mike has seen this stage before...3Xs before. He now hates Mustangs.

Just about ready for start up...AGAIN.

It was just after this point we tried starting the car, but it would not have it. Not even a little. The thing just cranked and cranked, but nadda.

Here are the facts we had to work with in solving this mystery. Maybe you can piece it together.

1) Eng fired w/last set of heads, but wouldn't run due to valves not seated correctly.
2) Installed new GT40X307 heads to repl old heads.
3) Has new Ford/Crane 1.72 RRs.
4) New FRPP lifters (pre-soaked for 6 days).
5) New FRPP hardened, stock length pushrods.
6) All gskts & bolts rec for X307 heads incld.
7) Freshly rebuild 308cid short blk.
8) Stock camshaft installed (timed) correctly.
9) All vac lines & sensors installed correctly.
10) Firing order correct.
11) Valve train set up correctly (at cntrline of cam)
12) Air, fuel, and spark present, but NO GO!

What is wrong? What would you do next? Go!

Boosted92LX · Jul 24, 2015

I'm not up to speed on your project, but did you check for codes? May be something simple..

Boosted92LX · Jul 24, 2015

Also, you say air, fuel, and spark are present, are you calling compression air? Do you have compression?

joetrainer31 · Jul 24, 2015

Boosted92LX said:
I'm not up to speed on your project, but did you check for codes? May be something simple..

Its always a good idea to go to the basics. Good guess. There were no codes. The car previously started up with the old heads, but wouldn't run properly due to poor bowl work & valves not closing all the way. Codes were not the issue.

Guess again?

joetrainer31 · Jul 24, 2015

Boosted92LX said:
Also, you say air, fuel, and spark are present, are you calling compression air? Do you have compression?

I'm calling "air" air available to the engine (i.e., no clogs or obstructions in the intake tract.

You are getting much warmer with the "compression" idea though.

Bullitt347 · Jul 24, 2015

The lifters are holding the valves open a tiny bit so it can't build enough compression to start. This is either caused by the valve lifter pre-load being to much (tight) or the lifters are pumped up and have not collapsed. This is not usually the issue with new lifters.

joetrainer31 · Jul 24, 2015

Bullitt347 said:
The lifters are holding the valves open a tiny bit so it can't build enough compression to start. This is either caused by the valve lifter pre-load being to much (tight) or the lifters are pumped up and have not collapsed. This is not usually the issue with new lifters.

Bullitt347, this is exactly what we thought. We used a leak down tester to verify that the valves were indeed failing to close. However, our lifter preload at the rocker are was no more than a couple of turns by hand. We couldn't even get to the minimum torque setting without loosing all compression. We were a bit stumped.

You are right that the lifters are involved with the lack of compression, as are the valves. However, the cause is another thing. The lifters and valves are only symptoms of a root cause.

Here's a hint: this is not normally a problem when purchasing a rebuilt short block.

Side question: what would cause a hydraulic lifter to stay pumped up? If I remember correctly, their design is to fail by collapsing. They would become a solid lifter if one took them apart and flipped the little internals upside down.

joetrainer31 · Jul 24, 2015

HINT: we wanted to experiment on cyl #1 for a resolution. We used 2 washers to solve the problem. Although, they cannot stay for good. They will need to be replaced by something else.

Bullitt347 · Jul 24, 2015

Hyd. roller lifters in a non-roller block?
To your side question: I have performed several head gasket jobs on various engines over the years. If you are real good, you can have the heads off while the engine is still hot. What happens is during the dis-assembly process, one of the first things to happen is taking rocker arms off and then pushrods out. If the engine is still hot, the lifters may stay pumped up due to residual oil pressure so to speak. When you go back together, the lifter is "up" and when you set the rockers on (side note: this happens more often on pedestal mount rockers where there is no lash/pre-load adjustment, just a torque spec for the rocker arm bolt) the lifter does not bleed down, it just opens the valve instead. Even rolling the engine over will not collapse the lifter initially. It usually has to set for a while against spring pressure to eventually bleed down and close the valve and allow the engine to start.

Progress Thread Nasty Ninety Notch

joetrainer31

mikestang63

Chuckman

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

needstlc

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FoxMustangLvr

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FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

needstlc

Member

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

joetrainer31

joetrainer31

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

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Progress Thread Nasty Ninety Notch

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

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I love my Pimp

I love my Pimp

Member

I love my Pimp

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

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