Need suggestion for building my 351W

[Mahoney'sPoney]

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum and just recently purchased a numbers matching 1970 Mach 1. First off will be a complete engine rebuild. The motor is a 351W 2V. I'm thinking for performance an edelbrock intake, 4bbl carb, headers, maybe a mild cam, porting the heads, roller rockers. These are my thoughts. I would like to know what other people are running and the results they are getting. In the end I would like close to 400hp while still retaining street drive-ability and reliability. And if this were a perfect world, i wouldnt mind getting decent gas mileage. I 'd appreciate anyone's thoughts and tips. Thanks

 

[customperforman]

Welcome to the forum. Nobody seems friendly anymore (or didn't seem when I joined the forum), so Ill welcome you. I am building a very similar 351 W. I don,t know your budget, but assuming a small budget like mine, 400 hp is almost simple if you use the right parts. A couple of things I learned in my research:

gt-40P heads + a mild cam + edelbrock rpm = 400 hp for just over $1000 (including new headers for the P heads). doesn't get much simpler or cheaper than that.

the P heads are considered a pain because you have to get new headers for them, but they are a "fast burn" head with revised ports. all this really means is that they are efficient. this means better gas milage with more power. Im getting 22 miles to the gallon at 70 on the highway with 87 octane. granted, the key to this is the combo: P heads and a mild cam, MSD ignition, flowmaster exhaust, k&n, intake, holley 650, and a GOOD TUNE-UP. oh yeah, you have to drive evenly with gradual acceleration. quick acceleration is what kills gas milage. maybe all the 67 shelby fiberglass i have helps too. (light weight)

 

[Mahoney'sPoney]

Welcome to the forum. Nobody seems friendly anymore (or didn't seem when I joined the forum), so Ill welcome you. I am building a very similar 351 W. I don,t know your budget, but assuming a small budget like mine, 400 hp is almost simple if you use the right parts. A couple of things I learned in my research:

gt-40P heads + a mild cam + edelbrock rpm = 400 hp for just over $1000 (including new headers for the P heads). doesn't get much simpler or cheaper than that.

the P heads are considered a pain because you have to get new headers for them, but they are a "fast burn" head with revised ports. all this really means is that they are efficient. this means better gas milage with more power. Im getting 22 miles to the gallon at 70 on the highway with 87 octane. granted, the key to this is the combo: P heads and a mild cam, MSD ignition, flowmaster exhaust, k&n, intake, holley 650, and a GOOD TUNE-UP. oh yeah, you have to drive evenly with gradual acceleration. quick acceleration is what kills gas milage. maybe all the 67 shelby fiberglass i have helps too. (light weight)

Thanks for the reply. Where can I find the P heads? Also, what kind of lift/cam are you running? 22 gallons MPG ! Damn not bad kicking 400hp. I can't wait to get this project going.

 

[streetgrande69]

First off, welcome!!

As for the 351w, i am a true believer of the Stroker motor. that is what i'd do if i were you. it gives you the ability to add big cubes(torque&hp) to a compact motor with out transplanting a big block. you can go as far as 427 if you want. that is a little radical, but possable! for a really good streetable motor(or engine?) go for a 408CI. add a roller cam/rockers and some afr 185's and you'll be set. you easily get 400 hp plus out of it. I think Dodgestang built a very nice 408 stroker.

i highly recommend how to build big-inch ford small blocks by george reid

good luck and almost forgot............we want pics

 

[D.Hearne]

I'd port the stock 70 heads before spending the cash on a set of "P" heads and custom headers, the money you'll save can be better spent somewhere else. Not to mention the headaches involved with finding and fitting those custom headers to work with the "P" heads on a 351W. A good port job will net you just aas much flow as the "P" heads. And with the right cam, it'll still run on 87 octane.

 

[SadbutTrue]

P heads are junk, ported 351W heads would be better as D Hearne said. I think the combo of that plus a mild cam and a performer rpm or equivalent exhaust with a 2.5 inch exhaust/headers might hit 330-350. Maybe. 400 is stretching it a bit. Hard to do with stock heads, though not impossible. I would go for a set of Performer RPM or Trick Flow heads if you wanted to hit 400 hp for sure.

Still can be done for under 2k (600-700 for heads off ebay, 150 for intake off ebay, 150 for headers, 250 exhaust, 200 cam and lifters = under 1500.. then you can add ignition /carb of your choice and all and keep it under 2k).

 

[65shlbycln]

does anyone have any lift/duration cam specs he should run? Also, should he invest in a mild stall converter?

 

[D.Hearne]

Just me, But I'd go for a cam with a .500-530 lift, and a 280-290 degree duration.

 

[bones0351]

I read about a 351W build in a magazine a while back, (I probably still have it around here somewhere) that if you took a 400 ford crank, 360 Mopar rods, and put them all together inside a 351W block you would end up having 427 cu inches of streetable smallblock that was running 11:1 on 87 octane. This was from the longer dwell of the mopar rods allowed for a more complete combustion without the knock ffrom running such a high compression engine. I think the magazine was popular mechanics, not sure Id have to dig around in the barn to see if I could find it. If I remember correctly they made unbelievable horsepower with very little money involved. Agian I cant name specific costs as its been several years since ive read the article.

I have always wanted to try this combo out myself.

And welcome! by the way.

Bones

 

[Edbert]

does anyone have any lift/duration cam specs he should run? Also, should he invest in a mild stall converter?

Cam depends on many things, are you gonna need vacuum for power brakes or AC? I should be getting about 420FWHP with a very mild cam (see sig).

Stall converter depends on how the car will be driven more than anything, but power curve makes the decision for you. You'll want the flash stall high enough to where your motor is making big power. It helps to think of it like a clutch, how high are you going to rev the motor before you let out the clutch. Most stock coverters were in the 1400-1600 range, so a 1k bump is a good rule of thumb for a perfomance engine. I chose a 2800, my car should be making over 300 foot-pounds by then

 

[electricgreen]

Welcome! I really don't have anything to add, I'm reading this for ideas on the buildup of the 351w we will be getting for our 73.....

 

[Pakrat]

Welcome to the gang. Looks like you have plenty of good info to get you thinking and started. I just wanted to point out that there really isn't such a thing as "Numbers Matching" in the Mustang world and that normally a 70' model would have the Clevland not the windsor if it was original. Just FYI. Have you run the numbers on the tags yet to verify your car?

Post pics when you can, we love eye candy!!!!!!! Good luck!

Pak.

 

[67GTCOUPE]

My suggestion is this:

#1....do not waste one nickel on any stock iron head!!!!! It is like wiping your azz with $20.00 bills!

Go to Edelbrock and look at their packages.......I strongly suggest the Performer RPM Package....Heads, Intake, Cam. This makes 410hp!

As for a carb.........Do yourself a favor...Get a Quick Fuel Pro Vac 750!!!!!!! Awesome, awesome carb! Great customer service, and they know more than almost anyone else about performance carbs. www.quickfueltechnology.com

I have a 351W with a roller cam, performer RPM intake, Performer RPM heads, and ProVac750 carb..........IT FRICKEN SCREAMS!!!!! It is actually a complete gentleman untill you step on the gas.........then OH MY GOD!

 

[Mahoney'sPoney]

Thanks for the replies guys and the welcomes! I finally got some pics to share with everyone:

http://community.webshots.com/user/bigjeeps

As far as numbers go, it's an H code engine original 351W 2V. The mach's came with 351W 2v, 4v, 351C 4v, and the 428. The tranny is the 3spd FMX auto.

As far as new heads go, thats where the budget part comes in. Wouldnt it be cheaper and comparable in performance to just port and clean up the ome heads?

 

[customperforman]

P heads are junk, ported 351W heads would be better as D Hearne said.

Actually, the stock P heads significantly outflow ported stock heads. Ill try to find and post the flowbench numbers that i found while i was researching this very thing. this makes for more area under the flow curve. however, the peak flow numbers aren't as impressive as i'd like to see. if you look at the total area, though, they are just as good as the nice FMS aluminum heads.

"I would go for a set of Performer RPM or Trick Flow heads if you wanted to hit 400 hp for sure."

This is for sure! thats what i would like to do, but instead of spending a lot for heads, im buying paxtons carb'd ford supercharger kit. people think that headers for the P heads are so expensive and hard to find, but central coast mustang sells a nice ceramic coated (inside and out) set for $265. Various other companies also sell specific headers and some regular sets will fit. if you are on a budget, dont wite these heads off. especially when you add a port job to the P heads; they really flow!

 

[customperforman]

Thanks for the reply. Where can I find the P heads? Also, what kind of lift/cam are you running? 22 gallons MPG ! Damn not bad kicking 400hp. I can't wait to get this project going.

central coast mustang has assembled castings with upgraded valvesprings for $639 a pair and you can get some out of the back of Mustang magazines for $550. they're getting harder to find because they have been discontinued.

my cam is .498/.512.

don't be impressed by the gas milage...this is a "best case" report with a car that has alot of fiberglass, is almost down to race weight, and im barely giving it gas. when i floor it, i only get about 12 mpg. also, i did every thing possible to make it as efficient as possible. it has a very good tune a good intake, exhaust, ignition, etc.

most of it comes from a 3.08 gear with a 5-spd tranny, too.

 

[toyshop]

Did I hear someone mention a carbureted paxton kit? I must be blind- I've been looking for one for months now with no luck. If you could forward some specifics about this kit, possibly part #'s,etc, I would be forever indebted to you. I am curious as to wether they are draw thru or blow thru setups. I'm trying to decide on a supercharger or turbocharger for either of 2 69 Fastbacks. The paxtons look nice from a packaging under the hood standpoint, but the turbo setups are impressive when you open the hood.

 

[Edbert]

Did I hear someone mention a carbureted paxton kit? I must be blind- I've been looking for one for months now with no luck.

http://www.paxtonauto.com/catalog/units.asp

If you could forward some specifics about this kit, possibly part #'s,etc, I would be forever indebted to you.

All you have to decide is which side you want the compressor on...
http://www.paxtonauto.com/catalog/systems.asp?Action=GetRecord&ID=10

 

[D.Hearne]

My suggestion is this:

#1....do not waste one nickel on any stock iron head!!!!! It is like wiping your azz with $20.00 bills!

Go to Edelbrock and look at their packages.......I strongly suggest the Performer RPM Package....Heads, Intake, Cam. This makes 410hp!
:

And how would you know that the ported stock heads suck? Have you ever tried them? And as far as Edelbrock's offerings, there are much better heads out ther than them and the difference is like night and day over the E'brocks. Nothing at all wrong with ported iron heads when you're on a budget and can't swing 1000+ dollars for aluminum heads.

 

[bnickel]

And how would you know that the ported stock heads suck? Have you ever tried them? And as far as Edelbrock's offerings, there are much better heads out ther than them and the difference is like night and day over the E'brocks. Nothing at all wrong with ported iron heads when you're on a budget and can't swing 1000+ dollars for aluminum

if you can get a good set of ported stock heads it is possible that they could outflow the e'brocks. www.powerheads.com has early castings that are cnc ported with 1.94 & 1.60 valves screw in studs and guideplates for about 650 bucks, there is a guy named fletch or fletcher or something that has a flow chart comparison of several different heads including the power heads and gt 40-p's and e'brocks as well i think, anyone have the link to his website? i lost all my bookmarks when my hard drive crashed a couple months back