New TFS top end build article

FastDriver · Feb 3, 2024

Modernizing Retro 5.0's Top End With Trick Flow 11R Heads

Trick Flow's 11R heads are the modern twist on the venerable Twisted Wedge cylinder head design, so we dyno tested them on Retro 5.0.

www.enginelabs.com

Cliff's notes:
306
170cc 11R TFS heads 10.3 CR
TFS Stage 1 cam with 1.6s
Holley systemax
NOS big shot plate (not sprayed, yet)
75mm TB
1 5/8" shorties
Terminator X computer

Engine Dyno:
411 hp @ ~5.8k /399 lbs-ft

At first I was disappointed at the small heads and cam. I think the systemax intake uses a 1262 gasket and I don't know what the heads use, but I'd guess 1250?

But, I can't deny the result. Should make around 350rwhp through a manual. Simple OTS parts. Maybe something like this will be Black Jack's next motor.

How would you build a simple 302/306, these days if starting from scratch?

Noobz347 · Feb 3, 2024

FastDriver said:
How would you build a simple 302/306, these days if starting from scratch?

Today? Right now? On an N/A setup and upper plenum that is simple to remove/reinstall?

Solid lifter cam setup.

I haven't done one yet but I'm itching. I've been watching a lot of solid lifter street builds lately. I want to build a JY 6.0L LS for my Burban.

I can't do it on my Stang. The KB is a huge PITA to R&R every year.

Bullitt347 · Feb 3, 2024

Engine Masters had a episode where they took an engine that had a Hyd Roller cam and swapped Solid Rollers onto it.
It was impressive how much more power the engine made and how the engine was much cleaner at higher rpm's
The only question is, long term, how would it hold up. They are keeping the solid rollers in the engine to track reliability as they use it in future episodes.

FastDriver · Feb 3, 2024

Solid lifter would be interesting. I just have a feelin I'm gonna be doin one on Black Jack after spraying it's 200k mi (maybe?) shortblock. Don't really know it's mileage, but I'm still gonna see if it can take some lumps.

Noobz347 · Feb 3, 2024

FastDriver said:
Solid lifter would be interesting.

And the sound is just fkn

Noobz347 · Feb 3, 2024

Your browser is not able to play this audio.

limp · Feb 3, 2024

Alot of the cars came with solid lifters when I was a kid, LT1 Z-28 cars I remember quite well.....
I remember it being a tiresome chore adjusting them... Seems like they always needing adjusting when I had no time to do it...
Decent hydraulic lifters being produced later on were a godsend in my opinion....
Have to add here these cars were our daily drivers....

Noobz347 · Feb 3, 2024

limp said:
Alot of the cars came with solid lifters when I was a kid, LT1 Z-28 cars I remember quite well.....
I remember it being a tiresome chore adjusting them... Seems like they always needing adjusting when I had no time to do it...
Decent hydraulic lifters being produced later on were a godsend in my opinion....
Have to add here these cars were our daily drivers....

Solid lifters have improved since then too. This has a lot to do with becoming a 'thing' now.

Done right, they should get checked once a year and sometimes/often require nothing.

limp · Feb 3, 2024

Noobz347 said:
Solid lifters have improved since then too. This has a lot to do with becoming a 'thing' now.

Done right, they should get checked once a year and sometimes/often require nothing.

Good point, 50 year old technology is what I am used to...

AeroCoupe · Feb 3, 2024

You can run solid roller lifters on a hydraulic cam but the lash has to be tight. Google it and several guys are doing it but their hot lash is anywhere from 0.004" to 0.008".

AeroCoupe · Feb 3, 2024

Also, Morel make a high lift high rpm hydraulic lifter but those mofos are north of a grand.

5879 FORD WIND/CLEV .875D, T/B, (HI RPM) HYD ROLLER Lifters - John Callies Inc

Morel HI-RPM Hydraulic Roller Link Bar Lifters - SBF

Morel 5879 HI-RPM Hydraulic Roller Link Bar Lifters Small Block Ford

flowtechinduction.com

Bullitt347 · Feb 3, 2024

Solid rollers will always make more power than a hyd roller.
Lifter weight, valvetrain stability and valve timing are the main contributors to such results.

limp · Feb 4, 2024

Bullitt347 said:
Solid rollers will always make more power than a hyd roller.
Lifter weight, valvetrain stability and valve timing are the main contributors to such results.

Max horsepower is not always the end goal with a street car.....

Noobz347 · Feb 4, 2024

limp said:
Max horsepower is not always the end goal with a street car.....

Two things came to mind when I read this:

The first thing is that the company we keep in here, already know this. You cannot survive in this forum long enough to reach 500 posts without learning this as gospel.

Do you think that converting to solid lifter in some way sacrifices torque for HP? We're not changing the cam profile. Consider this for a moment.

Also... Timing events with a solid lifter are a [lot] tighter. What do you thing that will to the torque number?

Bullitt347 · Feb 4, 2024

A hyd lifter is like a marshmellow. It dampens everything all the time. It is gets worse as the rpm's climb.
Throttle response and efficiency suffer from this.
Even the mildest of hyd roller cams can benefit from the use of solid roller lifters.
And yes, even the mildest of hyd roller cams would make more hp/tq with a solid lifter.

limp · Feb 4, 2024

Noobz347 said:
Two things came to mind when I read this:

The first thing is that the company we keep in here, already know this. You cannot survive in this forum long enough to reach 500 posts without learning this as gospel.

Do you think that converting to solid lifter in some way sacrifices torque for HP? We're not changing the cam profile. Consider this for a moment.

Also... Timing events with a solid lifter are a [lot] tighter. What do you thing that will to the torque number?

You became way too specific here.... What I am saying is that max horsepower is not always the best option for a street car..
Take the Boss 429, yes I was around one back in the day... The Large valves made for a POOR performing street car...
When, like most gearheads I want to think, I looked into a Cobra kit car... Never did get one, but have continually read reviews and stories about them...
A very common complaint and recommedation from owners is Less horsepower, Smaller engines are alot more fun in them... Too muchHP/ Too many Cubic inches and the car becomes " not fun " to drive.......

My " nothing ' engine in my car got a 500CFM 4 barrel, Summit brand for those interested. Could I have gotten more HP from a 600CFM?? Not sure, maybe, but from what I have researched the smaller one will be a better carb for the street....

AeroCoupe · Feb 4, 2024

This is what I was looking for yesterday and finally found it. Proof is in the dyno.

Not a lot of power difference but when its usable power across the curve and kills valve float that is a win. I would say that if you already have a motor put together changing to solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam is probably not worth it unless you are reving it past 6500 rpm.

Noobz347 · Feb 4, 2024

Proof is in da Poodin'.

Now, I'm beginning to consider the amplification effect with boost.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 5, 2024

I regret not going with the 11R's when i bought my heads. They had just come out and I said "Nah, i'll be fine with the regular 170's".

Should have ponied up.

FastDriver · Feb 5, 2024

Nothing a wet nitrous kit in your future wouldn't make up for ;-)

New TFS top end build article

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

wrap a little cheese around it and its a done

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

wrap a little cheese around it and its a done

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

wrap a little cheese around it and its a done

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

wrap a little cheese around it and its a done

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

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