New Track Times

[revhead347]

You might want to look into doing some Machine work on the heads you have. I don't know how much you can pick up on AFR 185s with a machine work, but it's worth looking into. I've never thrown a set of out of the box heads on a car. I think it's a waste of time. There is so much to be gained from a little port and polish work, and a decent valve job. Not to mention a good O-ring job for peace of mind.

Kurt

 

[Venom351R]

thats an option but like I said before I dont even know what the specs are on these heads or if they are even 2.02 1.60 valves or what cc combustion chamber. I think I'd rather sell them for what I can get for them and get a nice set of 205cc Trickflows which will match up well w/ the TFSR intake.

 

[revhead347]

Yeah, you're probably right. Trick Flow heads are awesome.

Kurt

 

[95Vert]

Kurt, sorry to say but you're comments are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy off base and a bit mediocre. For example:

I honestly don't think 12.7 is half bad. There aren't too many guys here with similiar mods running much faster than that on this forum.
Kurt

So does this mean he should be happy running what a mild, VERY mild 302 runs? Does this mean that if MOST of the guys in this forum run these times with a similar combo, that they're all right? How about searching outside of stangnet?

Paul has some exceptional times with AFR 185 heads, but he is definately the exception and not the rule.

Paul is the exception to doing **** RIGHT, not that he got lucky. Again, I'd be pissed if my 347 runs mid 11s WITH nitrous.

You might want to look into doing some Machine work on the heads you have. I don't know how much you can pick up on AFR 185s with a machine work, but it's worth looking into.

Kurt

DON'T throw anymore money to those heads, especially if you're considering an overall better head. Not worth it.

Again, if you get the codes and get them figured out, you might be pick up way more than you expect and be happy with it and not have to change anything.

 

[Venom351R]

I know the car has more in it its just not being driven to its full potential but its also pretty heavy plus the suspension for what Im trying to do is wayyyyy off. You take all of those mediocre 302's running the same times and throw some road race suspension on then see what happens. Considering what Ive had to work with I think Ive done quite well and I am happy w/ how the car ran on the times I first posted. Considering all of the things Im fighting against...gearing, weight, suspension I think Im doing quite well. Yes for the power level it should be lower but I have not even had the advantage of running in mildly good temperatures this year either.

I will get low 12's NA. There are just a few things that I need to work out and change on it before then.

I always thought too that the harder you hook for a 60' time the lower your top end will be?

 

[Pokageek]

You could always buy my cam and really rock it out lol. Its a bit big for your motor though.

 

[95Vert]

Considering what Ive had to work with I think Ive done quite well and I am happy w/ how the car ran on the times I first posted.

That's all that matters then.

 

[Venom351R]

also keep in mind I dont have a regular T5 transmission, its a Tremec 3550 which I figure would have something to do w/ the MPH as well.

You could always buy my cam and really rock it out lol. Its a bit big for your motor though.

yeahhhhhh..... dont need anything bigger then what I have now

 

[revhead347]

Kurt, sorry to say but you're comments are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy off base and a bit mediocre. For example:



So does this mean he should be happy running what a mild, VERY mild 302 runs? Does this mean that if MOST of the guys in this forum run these times with a similar combo, that they're all right? How about searching outside of stangnet?


Paul is the exception to doing **** RIGHT, not that he got lucky. Again, I'd be pissed if my 347 runs mid 11s WITH nitrous.



DON'T throw anymore money to those heads, especially if you're considering an overall better head. Not worth it.

Again, if you get the codes and get them figured out, you might be pick up way more than you expect and be happy with it and not have to change anything.

I hope you are coming from experience with your comments. Most basic small block Mustangs with aluminum heads don't get into the 11s. Hell most basic 302s with HCI run about mid 13s. It's not about stangnet, I've been doing this for 15 years. Just because one guy builds a 351 with aluminum heads and goes 11.2 doesn't make that the norm. I seriously doubt you know what makes the difference. I know why the KillerCanary runs mid 11s on motor, and I know it's not luck, nor did I suggest that. Machine work does wonders, and I'm just putting an option out there.

Kurt

 

[95Vert]

Most basic small block Mustangs with aluminum heads don't get into the 11s. Hell most basic 302s with HCI run about mid 13s. It's not about stangnet, I've been doing this for 15 years.

Kurt

What's basic? Would a TFS stage 1 kit be basic? If it is, I have a buddy who ran 11.9x with this BASIC build. Is a 302 cid with gt40 heads, cobra intake, ****ty cam basic? If so, I ran a 13.0 @ 105. Hell, this combo would've gone 12.80s if my transmission didn't have 1st messed up. Think about this, there's a 289 with canfields's 195 heads, CI TLSR or HR (don't remember right now), and a pro systems carb and he went bottom 11s his FIRST time off the trailer with minimal tuning.

Dude, just because you've been doing 'this' (not sure what you meant there) for 15 years does not mean mid 13 sec 'basic' 302s are the norm. It just means someone is messing up.

 

[Venom351R]

Dude, just because you've been doing 'this' (not sure what you meant there) for 15 years does not mean mid 13 sec 'basic' 302s are the norm. It just means someone is messing up.

No it must means a lot of people are avg drivers. I dont see alot of H/C/I 302's in the 12s either. Most of the NA cars I see at the track are 13's 14's or higher. Im good at launching, good at shifting, just still figuring out where I need to shift it.

Im going to try a few other things before I throw the money down on gears and the install. As far as my H/C/I I think my biggest restriction are my heads, I dont know why but its just a feeling and if I dont pull more soild numbers w/ TF 205's Id be shocked.

There are to many other factors going on in order to say my numbers are not where they should be. My weight, my suspension the heat have all been factors. IMO I think I need better suspension before I put money into gears.

 

[Grn92LX]

You NEED gear to make this run the mph it should. If you don't care if it runs optimal, then leave it alone. Your afr 185s are fine for your mild 351. I had unported TW's on my 347 making a LOT more power than you.

Have you asked Ed what he thinks? His customer service has always been great. I already know what he'll say *gears* Like I said before, had the same issue as you with my old 347 only going 115 crossing around 5500 (first pass out). I asked Ed what to do and he said step up the gear. I needed to cross around 6700.

I'm just trying to help you get the car in the right direction w/o doing unnecessary stuff.

 

[Venom351R]

You NEED gear to make this run the mph it should. If you don't care if it runs optimal, then leave it alone. Your afr 185s are fine for your mild 351. I had unported TW's on my 347 making a LOT more power than you.

Have you asked Ed what he thinks? His customer service has always been great. I already know what he'll say *gears* Like I said before, had the same issue as you with my old 347 only going 115 crossing around 5500 (first pass out). I asked Ed what to do and he said step up the gear. I needed to cross around 6700.

I'm just trying to help you get the car in the right direction w/o doing unnecessary stuff.

why will gears benefit me if Im crossing the line at my peak HP and TQ RPM? Why should I get gears when I have yet to drive the car to its full potential such as finding the sweet spot for the shift points?

I think buying gears and spending the money on an install is unnecessary stuff when I still have more practice as far as shifting and driving it goes and that's free.

 

[Grn92LX]

why will gears benefit me if Im crossing the line at my peak HP and TQ RPM? Why should I get gears when I have yet to drive the car to its full potential such as finding the sweet spot for the shift points?

I think buying gears and spending the money on an install is unnecessary stuff when I still have more practice as far as shifting and driving it goes and that's free.

The sheet says the power band is 2,400 - 6,200.

^ Thats why

Myself and Killercanary already hit the nail on the head. You do what you want with our correct advice. But you're right, there may be more in what you have now as is. Not much more with out gears, but i'm sure you can beat your current best especially once the fall air comes.

 

[Venom351R]

^ Thats why

Myself and Killercanary already hit the nail on the head. You do what you want with our correct advice. But you're right, there may be more in what you have now as is. Not much more with out gears, but i'm sure you can beat your current best especially once the fall air comes.

Im not trying to counter what you are saying but my dyno graph says my peak HP TQ is 4,500 - 5,000. Does not matter if the cam sheet says the cam pulls from 2,400 - 6,200 b/c the dyno graph shows there is no more power being made past 5,000 so why would I need to wind it up past 5,200 RPMS if Im making my peak power at 4,500-5,000 where Im crossing the line?

 

[revhead347]

Theoretically, the car should cross the traps at the end of the power band, not at peak power. You want to keep the average power high in 4th gear. So right when you hit the end, the shift light should come on. Of course that's not practical, but that's the goal.

Kurt

 

[Venom351R]

makes sense, thanks

 

[revhead347]

What's basic? Would a TFS stage 1 kit be basic? If it is, I have a buddy who ran 11.9x with this BASIC build. Is a 302 cid with gt40 heads, cobra intake, ****ty cam basic? If so, I ran a 13.0 @ 105. Hell, this combo would've gone 12.80s if my transmission didn't have 1st messed up. Think about this, there's a 289 with canfields's 195 heads, CI TLSR or HR (don't remember right now), and a pro systems carb and he went bottom 11s his FIRST time off the trailer with minimal tuning.

Dude, just because you've been doing 'this' (not sure what you meant there) for 15 years does not mean mid 13 sec 'basic' 302s are the norm. It just means someone is messing up.

By 'this', I've been building Mustangs for 15 years. I ran 12.99@105 11 years ago with iron heads and a cobra intake. That's the experience I'm talking about. And you are saying you know one person that ran 11.9 with TFS heads, but if you go down to the track, I bet you are going to find two dozen Mustangs running 13.5 with H/C/I, and one guy running 12.7 with H/C/I. What is the trophy stock record anyway, 11.40 or something like that with stock E7 heads, and a stock profile cam. Anything is possible with enough money.

Kurt

 

[Grn92LX]

Im not trying to counter what you are saying but my dyno graph says my peak HP TQ is 4,500 - 5,000. Does not matter if the cam sheet says the cam pulls from 2,400 - 6,200 b/c the dyno graph shows there is no more power being made past 5,000 so why would I need to wind it up past 5,200 RPMS if Im making my peak power at 4,500-5,000 where Im crossing the line?

Uh dude, read the graph. Your peak hp is about 5,600-5,700. What the cam sheet says corresponds to what the graph is saying. Your peak torque is about 4,400. Make sense now??

You NEED higher shift points and you NEED 4.30's if you want this thing to run what its capable of. End of discussion. Now if you do not care about getting it to run ideally, then leave it alone.

 

[Pokageek]

Uh dude, read the graph. Your peak hp is about 5,600-5,700. What the cam sheet says corresponds to what the graph is saying. Your peak torque is about 4,400. Make sense now??

You NEED higher shift points and you NEED 4.30's if you want this thing to run what its capable of. End of discussion. Now if you do not care about getting it to run ideally, then leave it alone.

I would have to agree here. I was thinking 4.30's. 4.10's would be a waste. NOW, if you are more concerned about street then leave it and be happy. I think I'll stop here tho on this thread...some "interesting" commenting tho.