nitrous on v6
- Thread starter fazm83
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M
MSP
Thats my main point Zodiac.. Nobody knows exactly what the tolerances are.. They just shoot out numbers and make speculations, to discourage would-be buyers..
I say, let PowerHouse take it to the point of no return.. Is it possible he can get to 12.9sec, 12.5sec, 12.0? Who knows, but I hate for people to make claims and use speculation as to what is going on here..
No one ever thought they would see someone as respectable as Powerhouse post numbers such as 439RWTQ out of our stock motor, with just a jetted nitrous system and a tune.. Everyone cried it will blow up.. The 7.5 cant take it.. Well they were wrong.. I say we thank Powerhouse for his work, and encourage him to push the envelope.. The more success he has, the more popular our cars will be, and the more they will be respected for aftermarket parts..
I say blow it up Powerhouse... Keep feeding it, until the crankshaft is left at the Christmas tree in Ohio! LOL!! I wont speculate when you should stop.. I want to know where we stand.. So shoot for 500RWHP 600RWTQ with all stock engine components.. LOL!!
Boy this sounds utterly ridiculous, but I wont discourage innovation.. No way... If you think this sounds ridiculous, imagine how you would have felt last week, if i were speculating about 439RWTQ and a Zex Nitrous kit.. I would have had so many arguments by now, I would have most likley got banned.. LOL!!
I say, let PowerHouse take it to the point of no return.. Is it possible he can get to 12.9sec, 12.5sec, 12.0? Who knows, but I hate for people to make claims and use speculation as to what is going on here..
No one ever thought they would see someone as respectable as Powerhouse post numbers such as 439RWTQ out of our stock motor, with just a jetted nitrous system and a tune.. Everyone cried it will blow up.. The 7.5 cant take it.. Well they were wrong.. I say we thank Powerhouse for his work, and encourage him to push the envelope.. The more success he has, the more popular our cars will be, and the more they will be respected for aftermarket parts..
I say blow it up Powerhouse... Keep feeding it, until the crankshaft is left at the Christmas tree in Ohio! LOL!! I wont speculate when you should stop.. I want to know where we stand.. So shoot for 500RWHP 600RWTQ with all stock engine components.. LOL!!
Boy this sounds utterly ridiculous, but I wont discourage innovation.. No way... If you think this sounds ridiculous, imagine how you would have felt last week, if i were speculating about 439RWTQ and a Zex Nitrous kit.. I would have had so many arguments by now, I would have most likley got banned.. LOL!!
MSP said:
FWIW, T-Lok doesn't really strengthen the rearend. It's the Mosier axles and the axle brace that are allowing him to make those hard launches. I'll be interested to hear how it holds up after this weekend with the new nitrous jetting and power levels. I'm hoping for the best. It would be nice to know that the rearend could take that kind of torque at a dragstrip. If not, the 8.8 shouldn't be a hard swap.
Another weak point will be the driveshaft I think. I'm glad Powerhouse has stepped up to the plate to test the limits.
M
MSP
Jimp said:FWIW, T-Lok doesn't really strengthen the rearend. It's the Mosier axles and the axle brace that are allowing him to make those hard launches. I'll be interested to hear how it holds up after this weekend with the new nitrous jetting and power levels. I'm hoping for the best. It would be nice to know that the rearend could take that kind of torque at a dragstrip. If not, the 8.8 shouldn't be a hard swap.
Another weak point will be the driveshaft I think. I'm glad Powerhouse has stepped up to the plate to test the limits.
Yes Fazm83 has shown me the rear-end upgrade list.. I am aware of the Mosier Axles.. This would be part of the upgraded rear-end comment.. Its a statement which encompasses many things..
But thanks for trying to appear to educate me on what the **** I'm talking about..
M
MSP
Jimp said:Alllllrighty then!
LOL!! Seems not many are excited as me about all this.. Oh well, we'll discuss it after he post his results of the track meet..
Guess I should hide my excitement and remain a skeptical on-looker.. Dont want to have too much hope in our cars.. Thats not a good thing.. Better to feel like we all blew a wade on the damn cars, and just trade the SOB in for a GT..
MSP said:LOL!! Seems not many are excited as me about all this.. Oh well, we'll discuss it after he post his results of the track meet..
Guess I should hide my excitement and remain a skeptical on-looker.. Dont want to have too much hope in our cars.. Thats not a good thing.. Better to feel like we all blew a wade on the damn cars, and just trade the SOB in for a GT..
I am excited! I don't know why you get so defensive when we are all talking about the limits of the stock parts. Nitrous is a huge jolt to the drivetrain, especially as much as Powerhouse is using now. Parts will break. It will be good to know what needs to be upgraded. I don't know where you get that I don't like the V6 from my posts. And from your post it sounded like you were saying that T-LOK(!) was the major upgrade to the rearend. Hell, here's a quote:
"I'll tell you this, I admire you giving the stock rearend a chance, allthough heavily upgraded with T-LOK(Still using 7.5-upgraded with T-LOK).."
Get mad all you want. I was adding to the discussion, lest anyone think that from reading your post that T-LOK(!) was all that was necessary to stand up to nitrous. It's not. It helps get power to the ground. Anyways...
M
MSP
Jimp said:I am excited! I don't know why you get so defensive when we are all talking about the limits of the stock parts. Nitrous is a huge jolt to the drivetrain, especially as much as Powerhouse is using now. Parts will break. It will be good to know what needs to be upgraded. I don't know where you get that I don't like the V6 from my posts. And from your post it sounded like you were saying that T-LOK(!) was the major upgrade to the rearend. Hell, here's a quote:
"I'll tell you this, I admire you giving the stock rearend a chance, allthough heavily upgraded with T-LOK(Still using 7.5-upgraded with T-LOK).."
Get mad all you want. I was adding to the discussion, lest anyone think that from reading your post that T-LOK(!) was all that was necessary to stand up to nitrous. It's not. It helps get power to the ground. Anyways...
WOW!! So you skimmed through the "Heavily Upgraded" part to suit the essence of your post!! Nice job Jimp!
To be dumb, would mean I left out the "Heavily Upgraded" part, and just eluded to the T-LOK.. LOL!! You can also get mad if you want my man, it makes no difference to me.. Just dont try and change the meaning of my post, and we will be fine..
So lets review the meaning if we will...
"Heavily Upgraded" with T-LOK= Powerhouse upgraded to 28 Spline Mosier Axles to withstand the Torque, and also introduced the FMS Traction-Lok $229.95 to get the power to the ground more efficiently..
You see its important to state he is still using the 7.5 rearend.. Its cheaper, than buying an 8.8..
ok... first let me apologize for my ignorance...
I was in the shop on Wednesday talking to the guy who put my 4.10/T-lok in. This guy really seem to know his stuff.. I asked him about the durabilty of the 7.5. He said usually what he sees is the "spider" gears explode. He then mentioned that I don't need to worry about that happening... I just assumed because of the T-Lok... I say assume because I'm unsure which part the "spider" gears are... LOL! I'm such a dump-a$$... LOL!
He said this usually happens when you switch the v6 or a v8, manual tranny and then stick slick on the back... So far now, i'm not sweating the 7.5... LOL!
BTW... WOODWARD DREAM CRUISE is a blast... and it's not even Satruday! Which you all could be here! LOL!!!
I was in the shop on Wednesday talking to the guy who put my 4.10/T-lok in. This guy really seem to know his stuff.. I asked him about the durabilty of the 7.5. He said usually what he sees is the "spider" gears explode. He then mentioned that I don't need to worry about that happening... I just assumed because of the T-Lok... I say assume because I'm unsure which part the "spider" gears are... LOL! I'm such a dump-a$$... LOL!
He said this usually happens when you switch the v6 or a v8, manual tranny and then stick slick on the back... So far now, i'm not sweating the 7.5... LOL!
BTW... WOODWARD DREAM CRUISE is a blast... and it's not even Satruday! Which you all could be here! LOL!!!
New Results
Our 05 V6 project car went 12.31 at 111MPH today at Norwalk. The DA was 3485' (by our weather station), and the weight on Norwalks scale was 3490lbs with the driver, right after the pass.
View attachment 506515
As you can see the car went a 1.81 60' on this pass, but the car typically goes 1.7. The downside is the spider gears in the T-Lok blew up on this pass, and due to the fact we have an 8.8" ready to go in we are done running the 7.5" for awhile. It is our feeling that with a stronger differential the 7.5" may still be sufficient. How long will the other drivertrain components last; we are unsure at this point; but I can say we will keep pushing the limits of this car. We will be at the NMRA event at National Trails Raceway with the car for anybody who lives close and would like to see the car. Here are a couple of pics from today, excuse the pole.
We can't went to start testing the turbo!
Our 05 V6 project car went 12.31 at 111MPH today at Norwalk. The DA was 3485' (by our weather station), and the weight on Norwalks scale was 3490lbs with the driver, right after the pass.
View attachment 506515
As you can see the car went a 1.81 60' on this pass, but the car typically goes 1.7. The downside is the spider gears in the T-Lok blew up on this pass, and due to the fact we have an 8.8" ready to go in we are done running the 7.5" for awhile. It is our feeling that with a stronger differential the 7.5" may still be sufficient. How long will the other drivertrain components last; we are unsure at this point; but I can say we will keep pushing the limits of this car. We will be at the NMRA event at National Trails Raceway with the car for anybody who lives close and would like to see the car. Here are a couple of pics from today, excuse the pole.
We can't went to start testing the turbo!
Attachments
M
MSP
After all that, I guess you were right Jimp! LOL!! Let me buy ya a beer man!
powerhouse
Nice job man!! Thank you for all of your hard work for us.. We owe you big time man..
Please continue your research and development..
@ALL
Well, looks like we need 8.8's afterall.. Lets see, wheres that link Brodude2002 put up for that rearend.. LOL!!
powerhouse
Did you increase the Nitro levels past what your initial dyno reading was? Or is it still the same 439RWTQ you used today?
But we can be happy the engine in stock form is good for 12's @ 111MPH.. LOL!! I gotta keep somethin Jimp.. Let me take somethin home!! LOL!!
powerhouse
Nice job man!! Thank you for all of your hard work for us.. We owe you big time man..
Please continue your research and development..
@ALL
Well, looks like we need 8.8's afterall.. Lets see, wheres that link Brodude2002 put up for that rearend.. LOL!!
powerhouse
Did you increase the Nitro levels past what your initial dyno reading was? Or is it still the same 439RWTQ you used today?
But we can be happy the engine in stock form is good for 12's @ 111MPH.. LOL!! I gotta keep somethin Jimp.. Let me take somethin home!! LOL!!
MSP said:After all that, I guess you were right Jimp! LOL!! Let me buy ya a beer man!
powerhouse
Nice job man!! Thank you for all of your hard work for us.. We owe you big time man..
Please continue your research and development..
@ALL
Well, looks like we need 8.8's afterall.. Lets see, wheres that link Brodude2002 put up for that rearend.. LOL!!
powerhouse
Did you increase the Nitro levels past what your initial dyno reading was? Or is it still the same 439RWTQ you used today?
But we can be happy the engine in stock form is good for 12's @ 111MPH.. LOL!! I gotta keep somethin Jimp.. Let me take somethin home!! LOL!!
Well Powerhouse did say that with a stronger differential that the 7.5" might still be ok. But at some point you have to decide if it's more cost effective to keep upgrading the rearend or do the swap. And it also might be a good idea to swap the driveshaft while we're at it.
Of course, we could always stick with the 125 shot and save some $$$. 12.79 is nothing to sneeze at! I'm chomping at the bit to get this Zex kit!
M
MSP
Jimp said:Well Powerhouse did say that with a stronger differential that the 7.5" might still be ok. But at some point you have to decide if it's more cost effective to keep upgrading the rearend or do the swap. And it also might be a good idea to swap the driveshaft while we're at it.
I just dont want to let anyone down Jimp.. I know I promised to finish the blower project.. But I am like you, and feel all we really need is the cheaper Zex setup.. He broke the 7.5 with a deadstop launch... I could live with a rolling launch for the time being, and wait until we can find a beefier differential...
I am most happy about the motor though.. All the agony we have been going through in regards to it has been put to rest.. We have good motors.. The rest is just nic-naks we will have to invest in.. Atleast our foundation is pure muscle Mustang.. Thats what really matters to me.. I'm not worried about the cost of the 8.8, if thats our biggest expense later.. I just feel relieved..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8-8-...33728QQitemZ7993297342QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Brodude2002's rear-end find!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005...33731QQitemZ7994536514QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
scrming said:
Looks like scrming's shop guy knew his schnitz.
I think this is still absolutly respectible and should be commended. Nice work Mike.
As you know Mike (MSP) I was a huge skeptic and in this circumstance, I am glad to have been proved wrong! I will still remain cautious until Mike (@PowerHouse) runs this V-6 at least 10 times and we find the long-term viability of this type of boost. Now... Don't slam me MSP.
I am still very excited, I am just cautiously excited. I wonder how many times cleveland has ran his GT on the juice and any issues in daily driveability. I need to pick up a cheap Stang, like a 99 Cobra, so that I can drive it in case I decide to try this and something breaks.
Jenn
M
MSP
Jenns05Stang said:Looks like scrming's shop guy knew his schnitz.
I think this is still absolutly respectible and should be commended. Nice work Mike.
As you know Mike (MSP) I was a huge skeptic and in this circumstance, I am glad to have been proved wrong! I will still remain cautious until Mike (@PowerHouse) runs this V-6 at least 10 times and we find the long-term viability of this type of boost. Now... Don't slam me MSP.
I need to pick up a cheap Stang, like a 99 Cobra, so that I can drive it in case I decide to try this and something breaks.
Jenn
LOL!! Yep, I guess trust your mechanics!! Damn! 2 for 2!! Thanks alot Jenn, I forgot all about that post.. I guess it makes sense though, about the spider gears.. Ford has no reason to put heavy duty spiders in..
However, we somehow managed to miss the power level at which the spiders would explode.. Lets also remember, most of us dont plan on actually doing dead-stop launches with slicks.. It is my feeling that in a normal dailey driving situation we all find ourselves in, the 7.5 would hold up for ahwile..
Longterm would indicate the 8.8 is the way to go, to eliminate the headache of it all..LOL!
It would be nice if PowerHouse Mike could give his opinion more frequently.. Maybe you can help us out Powerhouse, and tell us exactly what it would take to save the 7.5 rear-end.. Is it worth it? We know the 2005 Mustang rear-end is about $1250.. Whats the total cost of getting the 7.5 up to snuff to handle the brutality package your putting together for us? Keeping in mind, you have not even touched the surface really.. Once you get the turbo package developed, I'm quite sure that package will have spiders running all over the place... LOL!!
I believe that a good differential would survive much longer, but the list of choices for the 7.5 is short, The ring gear shows absolutly no signs of excessive wear or stress.
I am going to research the available options for the 7.5, but I think that the 8.8 is going to be a better choice for us. With this big of a shot the car goes through the traps at a RPM a little higher than desired, I think that a 3.90 or 3.73 is the better choice for this power/torque level.
We knew that we were approaching the failure point of the rear, But no one could say for sure at what e.t. or 60 ft would cause the spider gear to fail.
So now you know for sure.
I am going to research the available options for the 7.5, but I think that the 8.8 is going to be a better choice for us. With this big of a shot the car goes through the traps at a RPM a little higher than desired, I think that a 3.90 or 3.73 is the better choice for this power/torque level.
We knew that we were approaching the failure point of the rear, But no one could say for sure at what e.t. or 60 ft would cause the spider gear to fail.
So now you know for sure.
M
MSP
pwrhws said:
Thanks for the response Powerhouse! 8.8 it is then..
One more quick question Powerhouse.. Whats your overall impression of the 05-V6 motor thus far? Is it something we can be thankful from Ford about? Did they sneak alittle something extra in there that they knew would be found sooner or later? Just your thoughts please.. I understand your anxious to get started on the Turbo work.. How do you think the engine will hold up to this based on your experience? Am I asking too many questions? LOL!! HEHEHE!! Shut up MSP!................I know thats what Jimp is thinking!! Just need something to take home Jimp! Sorry man! LOL!
Well I'm not Powerhouse but I think the engine is holding up much better than a lot of people thought it would! It's taking over 300hp and 400fp and he hasn't said anything negative about the engine yet! And it's certainly being abused by taking it down the quarter mile on a regualr basis. Like you said MSP, it won't see that kind of abuse during regular street duty. I still would be insterested in a compression check of each cylinder to see how the rings are holding up with all of the additional power.
