Nitrous Users....

RangerJoe

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So.....I may have stepped off and bought a dry nitrous kit. This particular kit requires fuel to be added through tuning, not a spike in fuel pressure. It will be a while, probably next winter, before I embark upon this install, seeing that I need to make a decision on tuning software.

For now, I need to decide what injectors to run. Currently I have 30lb injectors in my AFR headed 331, and a 255 pump. I think that with spray, I will see 500-525 fwhp, max. I think 42's will get it done. I have used a few calculators, but I am not completely sure where the bsfc should be on a N2O motor. Changing this value seems to make a difference in injector size. I think 60's are overkill.

From those who have, will 42' get it done?

Joe
 
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A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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Use injectors for the max horsepower level you will be at. Base it like a n/a motor when looking at calculators. That's what I was told by a few local guys. They have used nitrous for years with few issues(lol-they didn't destroy many motors:O_o: )

If using a tuning devise and limiting it to around 550hp, I would think 42's would be fine. I wouldn't be afraid of more inj though. 60's would definetly be safer and leave plenty of room to grow. The extra fuel will just be returned to the tank anyway. Is this a PMS you're using? NX kit? Plate system or just a nitrous solenoid-nozzle? Also just a fwiw, when looking at hp jetting i.e. 100 shot, there is a slightly greater increase in torque numbers vs the hp number. A 100 shot will see for example 125 ft lbs tq(this isn't an exact number,just an example). You also won't see these advertised hp number (again a 100 shot will see maybe 80-90hp-another example).

My dry kits always used fuel pressure spikes. I never used a tuner but have investigated the subject a little bit. Waaaay better way to go over a wet kit. Depending on your devise, you can incorporate a few extra fail safes. For example built in ign cuts,fuel pressure safety margins(if pressure drops below a set point-the nitrous solenoid will not activate),and of course your fuel,timing maps. You also eliminate/minimize fuel puddling. You probably know all the basics for running nitrous so I won't bore you with those.

Good luck and make sure you post the results. Would be cool if you use this as a "how to" or at least a follow up. Hardly any nitrous threads on here. Also if you haven't ever seen it, there's a good write up on the Corral under the nitrous section for the old NOS dry kits. Could be a good resource for you. I'm sub'ing to this.
 
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RangerJoe

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I have read that thread on corral several times, its got good info. The kit I bought is a NX dry kit, using a single nozzle. I spoke with NX, and it can easily be converted to a wet kit, but I wanted to stay dry for reasons @A5literMan listed....plus, I got a killer deal on it. Originally I had made my mind up to go with the Stinger Pimp, but the symplicity and amount of info for the PMS has my attention. Either way I am looking at 1k to get up and running with a tuner, so that is why it will be next year. I just spent a bunch if money on wheels and control arms.

For $300 I got the dry kit, a warmer, gauge, purge kit, fuel safety switch, window switch and ash tray switches. I really couldn't pass up the deal.

Once I get through NMRA in April, I will probably start piecing together injectors and a tuning system.

Joe
 
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srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
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www.crazybobracing.com
id pick up a PMS honestly... i know everyone thinks there are out dated.
BUT
you can run a wire into the the harness that see's power when the solenoids are on and you can pull timing and add fuel there. when its off it goes right back to your base tune
 

a91what

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I would suggest the stinger pimp or if your handy with a soldering pen you can get the diypnp from diyautotune.Com @hoopty5.0 @madmike1157 and myself use them.
I will even help you tune it.

Not only can you contril When the nitrous comes on based on rpm, tps, ect. Or a combination of these. You can have the MS switch to a second set of tables just for nitrous that control fuel and spark. It will do multiple stages of nitrous control as well.

Built in 2 step, flat shift, you can trigger multiple outputs for fans, shift lights or anything else you can think of.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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I have read that thread on corral several times, its got good info. The kit I bought is a NX dry kit, using a single nozzle. I spoke with NX, and it can easily be converted to a wet kit, but I wanted to stay dry for reasons @A5literMan listed....plus, I got a killer deal on it. Originally I had made my mind up to go with the Stinger Pimp, but the symplicity and amount of info for the PMS has my attention. Either way I am looking at 1k to get up and running with a tuner, so that is why it will be next year. I just spent a bunch if money on wheels and control arms.

For $300 I got the dry kit, a warmer, gauge, purge kit, fuel safety switch, window switch and ash tray switches. I really couldn't pass up the deal.

Once I get through NMRA in April, I will probably start piecing together injectors and a tuning system.

Joe
Ok Joe,...it's obvious that you race. What class or bracket if I may ask?

** just saw that you are not online, so, I'll make my point.

If you run the car in one of the true classes where heads up, and " run what you brung" are the bottom line w/o getting hobbled by a index, or break out e.t. then,........you go boy.

However.

If the opposite holds true, I'd ask why would you up the horsepower and create a dependency on an expendable power adder to compete in a faster et break, when the down sides far outweigh the ups?

A faster car becomes more of a liability.

It breaks more junk.
It eats more. ( in this case, bottles of nitrous, and requires a much more costly enrichment fuel)
It's less consistent.
You get paid the same as you did when you were slower.
Now that you've awakened the " Feed me Seymour" virus, you'll become dependent on the drug to cure it. The medicine to cure it being the green paper junk you carry around in your wallet.

You sure you wanna do that?
 
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RangerJoe

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Ok Joe,...it's obvious that you race. What class or bracket if I may ask?
Actually this is just a toy. I go to a few test n tunes here and there and try to do the True Street race in Atlanta each year. I mostly race myself, so to say. I like doing the work and seeing if it gets faster.

Joe
 

RangerJoe

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You both make valid arguments for each system.

PMS is the simplest to use and doesn't require a labtop. However, it does require a separate data logger and I would have to reprogram MAF for larger injectors.

PIMP offers a lot, self data logs, doesn't need a MAF for injector changes. However, it does require a laptop and the learning curve will be larger, I believe.

I have time to decide, it will be a little while.

Joe
 
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A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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Ok Joe,...it's obvious that you race. What class or bracket if I may ask?

** just saw that you are not online, so, I'll make my point.

If you run the car in one of the true classes where heads up, and " run what you brung" are the bottom line w/o getting hobbled by a index, or break out e.t. then,........you go boy.

However.

If the opposite holds true, I'd ask why would you up the horsepower and create a dependency on an expendable power adder to compete in a faster et break, when the down sides far outweigh the ups?

A faster car becomes more of a liability.

It breaks more junk.
It eats more. ( in this case, bottles of nitrous, and requires a much more costly enrichment fuel)
It's less consistent.
You get paid the same as you did when you were slower.
Now that you've awakened the " Feed me Seymour" virus, you'll become dependent on the drug to cure it. The medicine to cure it being the green paper junk you carry around in your wallet.

You sure you wanna do that?
I truly understand what you're saying here Mike. The only "disagreement" I have is the consistency argument. A well sorted package is as consistent as any other race package. I personally know 2 275x class racers that run nitrous. These are 4.9-5.0 second 1/8 mile cars(well over 1000hp). The one races 1/4 mile classes also. I've seen him run back to back 8.56's and a 8.58 to win that class. Not that our cars are bracket racers, so that level of consistency is difficult.

Joe and I are on the same page with this. It's just a fun hobby to make the car faster and/or more consistent at the track. I also like to drive my car anywhere at anytime I want. Yet I love going to the track a handful times a year. My car will never be a "track only" car but it has been evolving into more strip/street than street/strip. Nitrous is a nice track option for this priority IMO.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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Actually this is just a toy. I go to a few test n tunes here and there and try to do the True Street race in Atlanta each year. I mostly race myself, so to say. I like doing the work and seeing if it gets faster.

Joe
Put nitrous on there and " it'll get faster".

The little known ( because I can't find any pictures of the damn thing) blue and white Fairmont I had was a play toy with minimal money invested in a 306. Excepting it was built to take advantage of nitrous. ( read, lazy cam with outrageous lobe separation) carbureted, iron World SR heads, C-4 no brake.
The car was a blatant, fat pig on the motor. It ran 8.30's in the 1/8".

( I used to have a tv and vcr installed so I could catch up on my soaps while I waited for the finish line to get there)

It had a " Sportsman fogger" n20 system adjusted at IIRC the 150 HP power level, micro switched at WOT.

It ran 6.60's.
 

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
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Ok Joe,...it's obvious that you race. What class or bracket if I may ask?

** just saw that you are not online, so, I'll make my point.

If you run the car in one of the true classes where heads up, and " run what you brung" are the bottom line w/o getting hobbled by a index, or break out e.t. then,........you go boy.

However.

If the opposite holds true, I'd ask why would you up the horsepower and create a dependency on an expendable power adder to compete in a faster et break, when the down sides far outweigh the ups?

A faster car becomes more of a liability.

It breaks more junk.
It eats more. ( in this case, bottles of nitrous, and requires a much more costly enrichment fuel)
It's less consistent.
You get paid the same as you did when you were slower.
Now that you've awakened the " Feed me Seymour" virus, you'll become dependent on the drug to cure it. The medicine to cure it being the green paper junk you carry around in your wallet.

You sure you wanna do that?
It's all about having fun, Mike. Just because I have always wanted to. The true street stuff is just because it is a class for the average guy, because it's fun.

You are right though, reliability will greatly diminish the faster I go. Part of the reason for nitrous and not a huffer is less initial cost, and I may use 2-3 bottles a year, I don't get to the track very often. I can spray it when needed, and drive the car normally the rest of the time. Again, it's just a toy, if it breaks, it can be pastured in the garage.

Joe
 
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RangerJoe

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Put nitrous on there and " it'll get faster".

The little known ( because I can't find any pictures of the damn thing) blue and white Fairmont I had was a play toy with minimal money invested in a 306. Excepting it was built to take advantage of nitrous. ( read, lazy cam with outrageous lobe separation) carbureted, iron World SR heads, C-4 no brake.
The car was a blatant, fat pig on the motor. It ran 8.30's in the 1/8".

( I used to have a tv and vcr installed so I could catch up on my soaps while I waited for the finish line to get there)

It had a " Sportsman fogger" n20 system adjusted at IIRC the 150 HP power level, micro switched at WOT.

It ran 6.60's.
I'm talking 100-125 shot, max. If it gets addicting, then maybe down the road i'll build a dedicated nitrous motor. Fyi, I did email Ed Curtis and ask him how the cam would react to the nitrous, since it was cut for N/A. He said no problem with that size of a shot. Now my ring gaps are another topic.

Joe
 
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a91what

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You both make valid arguments for each system.

PMS is the simplest to use and doesn't require a labtop. However, it does require a separate data logger and I would have to reprogram MAF for larger injectors.

PIMP offers a lot, self data logs, doesn't need a MAF for injector changes. However, it does require a laptop and the learning curve will be larger, I believe.

I have time to decide, it will be a little while.

Joe
As far as the learning curve, 45mins on the phone with me and you will be all setup and running. Once we get her in the ballpark the auto tune will take care of the rest, once you hit the track data log a few runs (without the auto tune running) and I can walk you through the manual tuning procedure, another 30mins.....
A few more hits (all these are motor only) and we can auto tune from the data log file.......... then we fire the spray with an over rich tune, and repeat. One good 4 hour track session and your close.

We can even use team viewer so I can assist the tuning from my couch, wilst I drink beer. Lol
 
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A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
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I'm talking 100-125 shot, max. If it gets addicting, then maybe down the road i'll build a dedicated nitrous motor. Fyi, I did email Ed Curtis and ask him how the cam would react to the nitrous, since it was cut for N/A. He said no problem with that size of a shot. Now my ring gaps are another topic.

Joe
I did the same with my cam designer. It's designed for n/a but he said the stick would do well with a shot of nitrous. As long as you're keeping it at those nitrous levels,I would think your rings will be fine.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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I truly understand what you're saying here Mike. The only "disagreement" I have is the consistency argument. A well sorted package is as consistent as any other race package. I personally know 2 275x class racers that run nitrous. These are 4.9-5.0 second 1/8 mile cars(well over 1000hp). The one races 1/4 mile classes also. I've seen him run back to back 8.56's and a 8.58 to win that class. Not that our cars are bracket racers, so that level of consistency is difficult.

Joe and I are on the same page with this. It's just a fun hobby to make the car faster and/or more consistent at the track. I also like to drive my car anywhere at anytime I want. Yet I love going to the track a handful times a year. My car will never be a "track only" car but it has been evolving into more strip/street than street/strip. Nitrous is a nice track option for this priority IMO.
I understand that you can build a big power car, and maintain a competitive consistency at that power level.

My point is that what you had to do at 8.0 to make the car go 8.0 every time, won't be the same when all of the sudden it goes 7.0.

When you can get into a car with little more that typical add-ons, repeat the same technique over and over, and get the same end result, why muddy up the water with potential tire spin, added stuff to worry about i.e. switches, bottle, and fuel pressure, n2o jets, spark plug reads to insure you aren't melting junk,...blah-blah-blah......why would you?

Again, if you aren't bracket racing, and you just want the car to faster, I get it.
But bracket racing don't pay one cent more to go 7.0 vs 8.0, and it costs a hell of a lot more to get there.
 
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RangerJoe

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Just to set the story straight...I am by no means a bad to the bone heads up racer. When my car ran gt40 stuff it ran high 12's. I was able to slow it down to a 13.05 average and win the big $100 prize for TS 2 years ago.

I hope to go high 11's this year and slow it down for a 12 second win. I think it would be cool to do that, then come back next year and hunt for an 11 second win.

Just having fun, that's what this is all about. ;)

Joe
 

hoopty5.0

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Im gonna side with Joe on this one, I get where you're going and hope you follow through. The logic of less initial cost - especially if you only use a couple of bottles a year - makes sense to me.

And as far as tuning goes, it took me a week to figure out how to sync the timing, but once I got past that, the learning curve is very, very small.
 

RangerJoe

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Small update...

I bought this kit as a dry kit, but NX sells a wet kit conversion. I have been looking at their systemax plate, which I think is the best on the market...at $480 for just the plate.

I scored a NOS big shot plate for less than a 3rd of that. My big question revolves around the jetting charts. I assume that I will still go by the NX charts, since I am using their solenoids. My belief is that the plate will make no difference in the distribution ratios, compared to a nozzle. Am I correct here?

Joe
 
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