Not enough power... In 2005

CarrollShelby · Aug 18, 2004

Yes, I'm french Canadian... Sorry for my bad English!

My point is... For the same monthly payment of your new GT 2005, you drive a new Cobra 2004 at 0% rate for 60 months!

For me... It's better deal!

GinoGT · Aug 18, 2004

Z28x said:
I don't think people are asking for a More powerfull base Mustang (GT), They want a second V8 with more power. The Mustang Should have V6, base V8, hi-po V8. Like I said the 300hp 4.6L is good for a midrange engine, but the Mustang should also have and optional 3v 5.0L or 3v 5.4L V8 for $1200-$2000 more.

They already have it, it's called the Cobra and Mach 1.

It's a whole new Mustang, just give them some time to work with it. Other models will come out eventually.

M1Rifle · Aug 18, 2004

My point is... For the same monthly payment of your new GT 2005, you drive a new Cobra 2004 at 0% rate for 60 months!

For me... It's better deal!

Good. Then switch over to another forum, and pat yourself on the back there. This isn't the 04 Cobra forum.

SVTdriver · Aug 18, 2004

CarrollShelby said:
Yes, I'm french Canadian... Sorry for my bad English!

My point is... For the same monthly payment of your new GT 2005, you drive a new Cobra 2004 at 0% rate for 60 months!

For me... It's better deal!

But for someone who wants the 05. It's not a good deal.

CatmanJJ · Aug 18, 2004

CarrollShelby said:
Yes, I'm french Canadian... Sorry for my bad English!

My point is... For the same monthly payment of your new GT 2005, you drive a new Cobra 2004 at 0% rate for 60 months!

For me... It's better deal!

I understand what you're saying and too some extent I agree but it really is the eye of the beholder type thing. I mean in terms of power yes the Cobra is "better" thent he 05 GT, but the new Stang trounces the Cobra in every other mechanical aspect (cept IRS if you're a fan of that). Not everyone wants a 25 year old chassis that's been bandaided since the late 80's.

For me it was better to trade in my 02 GT for a Mach 1 and not wait for an '05. I liked the Machs heritage, the 4v DOHC motor, the limitedness of the special edition car and I still like the looks of our new edge sytling more then the newer 05 on the way. They had a used Cobra on the lot with 7000 miles for 27k when I got my mach brand new for less then 25k. Even though the Cobra is by far the faster car with more potential then the Mach, that was the only aspect I liked more and I didn't think that made the Mach any less of a car.

Nobody is going to deny the 03+ Cobra's prowess but I think it's foolish to think it's the end all be all in terms of bang for the buck value and that nothing else can touch it on the street, because that's not the case at all.

Z28x · Aug 18, 2004

SVTdriver said:
400HP GTO More Expensive than a gt
340HP 300C More Expensive than a gt
340HP Chrager R/T More Expensive than a gt
425HP 300C SRT-8 (6.1L Hemi) Definately more Expensive than a gt
425HP Chrager SRT-8 (05 or 06?) Definately more expensive than a gt

Of course if you would like to spend the difference between these cars and the gt. I'll bet you'll narrow up the hp margin. Of course that would throw out the whole argument of the 05 lacking hp. But you do have to pay for power.

Yes those cars are faster and slightly more expensive, but many Mustang fans would rather spend extra and get a 375HP car for $30,000 vs. a 300HP car for $26,000. Sure you can mod, but the vast majority of owners don't mod and don't want to risk voiding the warranty. Plus modding lowers your resale value.

SVTdriver said:
Not that I doubt you. But what other sites have members Drag racing these things. I was just told by a dealer yesterday. Not to expect any until October. I mean job 1 isn't even for what another 3 weeks? I'd like to talk to the people who are drag racing them already.

I'll try to get links, (I think I read the dyno stuff from Blueovalnews but I'll have to double check) they were pre-production cars. the vid of the 14.2 auto mustang is all over the web.

rich8566 said:
Under this theory, the 200 HP V-6 should have the same insurance rate as the V-8? I don't get it?

No, because the V6 is cheaper, cost less to reapir (less parts), and probably gets in less accedents. exp: 310hp Camaro is Cheaper to insure than a 260hp Mustang or 170hp Integra.

new22003 said:
Charger is too far down the road and more expensive also, the 300 is a more expensive and REALLY different kind of car
.

Charger will be shown this winter and will be in showrooms by April 2005

CatmanJJ · Aug 18, 2004

Z28x said:
Sure you can mod, but the vast majority of owners don't mod and don't want to risk voiding the warranty.

Coulda fooled me.

Venom351R · Aug 18, 2004

Z28x said:
For the millionth time, insureance rates are not based on HP. Vehicle value, cost of repair, safty, and the % of accedents that model is in are what they are based on. mods = higher warranty cost for manufactorer, they don't want that. higher vehicle cost = more profit, companies like that.

.

so your saying the insurance rates on a Viper VS a GT Mustang have nothing to do w/ HP ratings Im pretty sure the new viper is built better and is more safer then a 03 GT. Im also sure that there are more GT's on the road VS new Vipers so the accident rates for GT's would be higher.

new22003 · Aug 18, 2004

CatmanJJ said:
Coulda fooled me.

I was thinking the same thing.

I think most people would want to start with a lower priced car so they could do what they want with it.

Z28x · Aug 18, 2004

Striped5.0 said:
so your saying the insurance rates on a Viper VS a GT Mustang have nothing to do w/ HP ratings Im pretty sure the new viper is built better and is more safer then a 03 GT. Im also sure that there are more GT's on the road VS new Vipers so the accident rates for GT's would be higher.

Again, read my other post. You can't compare a Viper to a Mustang GT because they are not in the same price range. A Viper GTS hood cost $12,000 they are expensive to repair. More cars don't mean higher rate. by rate I mean % not total # of accedents. Call your insurance co. price a 200HP Acura RSX vs. a 200HP Ford Turaus. Both cost about the same and have the same HP so insureance shold be the same right? nope the RSX will be higher. HP plays a very small role in insurance prices.

CatmanJJ said:
Coulda fooled me.

Think about it, you're on the internet talking to only enthusists, and when you go to a drag strip and see other Mustang owners they are enthusists. Enthusists mod, regular buyers don't mod and hide in the shadows . Go shop used Mustangs at dealerships, very few have performance mods.

TomServo92 · Aug 18, 2004

Z28x said:
Yes those cars are faster and slightly more expensive, but many Mustang fans would rather spend extra and get a 375HP car for $30,000 vs. a 300HP car for $26,000. Sure you can mod, but the vast majority of owners don't mod and don't want to risk voiding the warranty. Plus modding lowers your resale value.

I'll try to get links, (I think I read the dyno stuff from Blueovalnews but I'll have to double check) they were pre-production cars. the vid of the 14.2 auto mustang is all over the web.

No, because the V6 is cheaper, cost less to reapir (less parts), and probably gets in less accedents. exp: 310hp Camaro is Cheaper to insure than a 260hp Mustang or 170hp Integra.

Charger will be shown this winter and will be in showrooms by April 2005

The vid is meaningless since it hasn't been validated (we hear someone say he ran 14.2 but we never see it on the video). If we see mag reviews with that kind of time then I'll agree with you. I'd like to see the link to the dyno test results.

CatmanJJ · Aug 18, 2004

Z28x said:
Enthusists mod, regular buyers don't mod and hide in the shadows . Go shop used Mustangs at dealerships, very few have performance mods.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and disagree, at least in my area more often then not I see Mustangs on the streets with some type of mod ie exhaust. Maybe the ones at the dealers don't have mods on them but I bet a lot of them had some type of mod at one point. Most of the Stangs on the streets in my area do. Heck when I had my GT with a bunch of bolt ons I had an agreement with the dealer and they didn't sell my car for about a week (when they already had a buyer lined up for it) until I was able to get all my mods off and virutally return it to stock, cept for the chin spoiler and tint, when I traded it in for my Mach. My friend works at the local Ford dealer up the street and he always tells me about Mustangs being traded in with stuff done to them.

blazinsteed · Aug 18, 2004

The reason you don't see modded stangs on lots is because the dealer has to have it up to spec on everything. This includes legal exhaust and everything down to the tires. Thats why they either make you return it to stock or sell it wholesale. Liabilty is too high and usually too much money to return it to stock. A stock gt catalytic mid pipe costs 1200 bucks for an 01 gt.

Roger

ElCid2006 · Aug 18, 2004

spectravp said:
To each his own.

Do we need to go any further than this? If you want the 300 hp for a low price, then buy it. If you want more, then wither wait for the SVT or the aftermarket.

ElCid2006 · Aug 18, 2004

spectravp said:
To each his own.

Do we need to go any further than this? If you want the 300 hp for a low price, then buy it. If you want more, then either wait for the SVT or the aftermarket.
Oops, sorry for the double post.

spectravp · Aug 18, 2004

blazinsteed said:
The reason you don't see modded stangs on lots is because the dealer has to have it up to spec on everything. This includes legal exhaust and everything down to the tires. Thats why they either make you return it to stock or sell it wholesale. Liabilty is too high and usually too much money to return it to stock. A stock gt catalytic mid pipe costs 1200 bucks for an 01 gt.

Roger

Not only everything you just said, but the warranty aspect alone. Dealers typically offer warranties on the cars and they don't want that warranty to now cover a kenne belle chip and supercharger, too! Dealers don't mind mods, so long as they are stuff they can fix on-site, with their own staff. Chin spoilers and stuff... whatever... chips, chargers, exhausts... they don;t want nothing to do with it.

In the case of the Stang, Ford underdrive pullies and larger throttle bodies, no problem... if they are aftermarket.. may be... and if it's aftermarket and it breaks, they will replace it with a stock one under warranty.

Phil 2000GT · Aug 18, 2004

How does everybody on these boards get the incredable prices on cars. The invoice on a base cobra is $32,093 according to cars.com.

SVTdriver · Aug 18, 2004

Phil 2000GT said:
How does everybody on these boards get the incredable prices on cars. The invoice on a base cobra is $32,093 according to cars.com.

Because rebates/incentives. They can take the price down to below invoice.

CarrollShelby · Aug 19, 2004

Exactly... Rebates/incentives will be bellow the invoice of the car! Some people's said $28,000 for brand new Cobra coupe 2004? Wow, that's a deal!

Omegalock · Aug 19, 2004

Yes it is and if you want to ride around on a platform that's 15 years old go right ahead. It's a wonderful car. But to go complaining the 05 GT doesn't have enough power....come on man give it up.
It's got plenty of power for the price, it's a better all around vehicle on top of it and there's nothing saying the new Stang WON'T be getting those improved performance models.

300C SRT-8 will be 35k and have 4 doors.
The GTO will be 32k.
The Charger likely will start at 28k IF we are lucky and it'll have 4 doors.
The Camaro won't be out until 07 thusly giving Ford plenty of time to respond(and wouldn't you rather them see what they are up against and respond than get stuck with a car that GM designed their Camaro specifically to beat?)

In other words calm down. Decrying the 05 Gt for a lack of power is crazy(especially since it isn't even out yet and comparing it to other cars that also are not out yet). Just give it time. For example I could be freaking out the Lightning is no longer the fastest production truck. I'm not because Ford now has a full year to build their Lightning as an answer to the SRT-10 and building it to crush the thing. Give Ford time to do the same with the Mustang. Don't like the numbers on the 05 just WAIT a couple of years.

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