OK Mustang Geniuses, need smartest guys to take a look at my mess

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saleenx029

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Jun 10, 2004
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Ok at first I provided the backstory to keep from answering questions that I have already answered, but it seems to have complicated things, I will clairify my questions.

This started under the thread "F-303 cam and timing chain questions" but I need to expand the questions and info as I am in need of more answers.

Thanks for the cam specs on the F-303 cam 90notch!

This is my timing chain issue:
Michael Yount or any other of you Veterans who could help: I'll start with the timing chain. Anyways the timing chain I am speaking of, the heavy duty one, is definately an aftermarket chain. You (Michael) said if I'm gonna degree it I need a new gearset anyway, why is that? It is already quite new. Yeah I know it is not brand new but if it is within tolerances then it is good right? That should be the bottom line right? I use the term loose to describe how the chain feels because I have two other shortblocks sitting here and I have some stock chains to compare it too, and they are loose fitting also (i.e. they have no problem coming on or off the motor) but the aftermarket chain that I would like to use is even more loose, and when I take this chain and lay it atop the stock chain, the chain length is noticeably longer, not to metion it looks to be twice as strong as a stock chain, which is said to be a 100,000 mile chain supposedly. If this chain I have is still within specs, it should be ok to use, correct?

This is my Lean issue:
I have recently dicovered that the MAF sensor that I was running was the stock 93 MAFsensor with a larger 73mm housing, but I thought that it was calibrated for a 24 lb inj and it wasn't; it should have been rich right? Because the comp thinks the inj are smaller, it dumps alot more? Am I right about this? This combo had worked fine in the 93 with the same parts, why not my 95? Is the computer THAT much different from a 93 to 95, cause that is the only thing that was different between the combo's, and the 93 ran perfect. Also tried swapping the 93 computer into the 95 and the car ran like total ***** and dumped hella white smoke, way down on power. I have noticed that the Air intake Charge sensors are in different locations. Does this affect the MAF? Do I have to use a MAF specifically for a 95? Should I be asking this on the SN-95 section? (I guess I will) I have heard that the computers are a big pain with these 95 cars. Will a 93 MAF work with a 95? That is the main question.

I first thought it might be easier to figure the problem if I gave more back history, but it seems I was wrong, I will begin with these questions. Any constuctive imput would be appreciated, thanks.
 
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I'm not sure what you are looking for. It seems you have answered all your questions. I would start fresh with the correst MAF and injector combo and get the chip burnt. As for the head gaskets and pistons that is due to running lean from not having your fuel issue worked out. And you should always check your pushrod clearances when changing anything up top like decking the heads. If your unsure how to shim then start fresh with new pushrods after you measure what size you need. They are like 30-40 bucks for good ones. As for the chain, it seems to be working since your timing is fine and you havent had any issues with it. Again, I wouldnt use a used timing chain in a fresh motor, thats just one of those things with me. Your main problem is with the comp. Fix what I mentioned and you should be fine. Of course you will need to rebuild the heads now and change the pistons cause you really heated things up.
 
Dude, take it easy. I think you need to take a step back and get a stock 302 back in the car and learn about cars and engine building BEFORE you try to build something.

As a swift kick in the but or possibly an eye opener for you.

New cam needs a new timing chain (double roller heavy duty, not a $25 special) It must not have slop when installed or even after 500 miles (like the $25 chain will) Your springs need set to the cams specs for pressure (or it'll float the valves at 4k like yours probally did). You need to use checker springs and check P/V clearances so the valves don't smack the pistons (like yours probally did when they floated)

Engine building isn't rocket science, but you have to use your noggin and think things through before slapping parts together. I'm not even going to go into what the timing was set at or fuel pressure before you burned the motor down three times

I did a F cam build last year with a set of RPM heads and it gave me fits for P/V clearances. Even gave me fits when I dropped a set of E7's on to test.

Jamie
 
SmockDoiley, thanks for the constuctive imput, I have narrowed my questions now. Your right, I do know how to deal with some of these things, but I like to get imput from multiple people on things I am still unsure of. No one even knows how to test the specifications on a timing chain, everyone just wants to slap a new one on of everything, and that is not possible, I know it should work. If I find mine is out of limits, I will buy one then. I am trying to maybe find someone who has tried a similar combination and maybe had the same issues, therefore could maybe think of something I have overlooked. Most of my problems are I am trying to use things that weren't meant for the car really, like the upper intake is a 93 cobra, and therefore the Air intake charge sensor is in different locations, could that affect the MAF readings? Will this make the car not run right using a 93 MAF with a 95 computer, as in run really lean? I will stick with a few questions at a time and right now I am wondering if a 93 MAF is suppose to work on a 95? That is my issue.

I have a brand new bottom end and the heads have been checked out and ported and are in perfect shape ( besides the retainer issue I will get back to later, I am going to measure some more tonight.), I am only worried about the tune aspect.
 
:notnice:

Jamie, YOU should use YOUR noggin before slappin some words together into sentences onto this post, don't be a jackass.


El rancho, you drop a stocky back in yer own damnya car son, here's a swift kick in the ass and eyeopener for YOU: I did not come here to listen to someone flap there gums who aren't saying anything pertinent to my situation. Maybe I SHOULDN'T be building motors, but I am becoming quite good at it now and what better way to learn than to jump right into it, be a scared pansy if YOU want, but I am not afraid, I will keep blowin them up till I know what I am doing and then I will one day know all things mustang, so screw it, trust me I know that I don't know everything about mustangs BUT NIETHER DO YOU SO KEEP YA DAMN MOUTH SHUT FOOL. IT just so happens I am addicted to the speed factor, not the "motor building factor", I build motors because it is the only way to have a fast car and still keep the costs down to a reasonable level, and I go as fast as my learming curve can take me, as slow as that is. You get on here and talk alot of smack about things I never even mentioned in my original post, like P/V clearance, dude if you paid attention when you read my first post you would notice that my valves are perfect, they never hit the pistons, and the pistons were melted from the heat (being hyper pathetic and lean is bad) not broken from physically hitting. You said you had many problems with that, come on man thats the easy stuff, I am good with the mechanical assembly side of motor building, just not the tuning side. That is what has caught me up in some problems, the tuning and/or parts mismatch that I was unaware of. Don't go into timing and fuel pressure fool cause I had no prolems there, anyways fuel pressure is for fine tuning, it cannot reverse a bad lean condition. Unless you thought I have a Carb? You lost me there buddy, you didn't read my post well enough. 25 dollar special chain? Where did I mention that? I believe I only spoke of a beefy aftermarket chain, you lost me ther again. I am not THAT dumb to have my whole motors life count on a 25 dollar chain, that is why I am speaking of this hardcore chain that looks to be very strong, and looks to be stronger than stock, easily, thats why I want to use it. It doesn't even look physically possible to stretch the chain, but I dunno, that is why I ask these things, no one else really knows either it seems. "New cam gets new chain" you say well guess what it is a low miles USED cam. The timing chain should be fine if it checks out OK, bottom line, the teeth and gears and chain look PERFECT, no marks of any kind, no wear, no reason to make me think twice exept it seems loose in my opinion, so I ask others what they think. It would be DUMB to throw away a perfectly good part just because you want all new everything, well I can't afford all new everything, so I make do with what I have. My valves never floated at 4 k, what gave you that idea? What makes you think that I put anything together mechanically wrong anyways? It sounds to me Jamie that if you were in my shoes you would give up from being overwhelmed, and you would fail to create this demon I am creating. Well, I don't give up, and I know I will figure it all out soon, even sooner if morons like you wouldn't run yor mouth for no reason just to dis somebody, save it for someone who cares. I bet you'll be real pissed when someone who knows less about stangs smokes your quarter mile times here very soon, hell my last car I built myself ran 12.1's on a N/A set-up, thats pretty close to your supercharged 11.7 now isn't it? If the timeslips aren't a testament to my stang knowledge, I don't know what is, and I think I have done pretty good for only being into cars for about 4 years now. I'm a DRIVER above all else, now I need the knowledge to get me where I want, that is all.
 
saleenx029 said:
:notnice:

Jamie, YOU should use YOUR noggin before slappin some words together into sentences onto this post, don't be a jackass.


El rancho, you drop a stocky back in yer own damnya car son, here's a swift kick in the ass and eyeopener for YOU: I did not come here to listen to someone flap there gums who aren't saying anything pertinent to my situation. Maybe I SHOULDN'T be building motors, but I am becoming quite good at it now and what better way to learn than to jump right into it, be a scared pansy if YOU want, but I am not afraid, I will keep blowin them up till I know what I am doing and then I will one day know all things mustang, so screw it, trust me I know that I don't know everything about mustangs BUT NIETHER DO YOU SO KEEP YA DAMN MOUTH SHUT FOOL. IT just so happens I am addicted to the speed factor, not the "motor building factor", I build motors because it is the only way to have a fast car and still keep the costs down to a reasonable level, and I go as fast as my learming curve can take me, as slow as that is. You get on here and talk alot of smack about things I never even mentioned in my original post, like P/V clearance, dude if you paid attention when you read my first post you would notice that my valves are perfect, they never hit the pistons, and the pistons were melted from the heat (being hyper pathetic and lean is bad) not broken from physically hitting. You said you had many problems with that, come on man thats the easy stuff, I am good with the mechanical assembly side of motor building, just not the tuning side. That is what has caught me up in some problems, the tuning and/or parts mismatch that I was unaware of. Don't go into timing and fuel pressure fool cause I had no prolems there, anyways fuel pressure is for fine tuning, it cannot reverse a bad lean condition. Unless you thought I have a Carb? You lost me there buddy, you didn't read my post well enough. 25 dollar special chain? Where did I mention that? I believe I only spoke of a beefy aftermarket chain, you lost me ther again. I am not THAT dumb to have my whole motors life count on a 25 dollar chain, that is why I am speaking of this hardcore chain that looks to be very strong, and looks to be stronger than stock, easily, thats why I want to use it. It doesn't even look physically possible to stretch the chain, but I dunno, that is why I ask these things, no one else really knows either it seems. "New cam gets new chain" you say well guess what it is a low miles USED cam. The timing chain should be fine if it checks out OK, bottom line, the teeth and gears and chain look PERFECT, no marks of any kind, no wear, no reason to make me think twice exept it seems loose in my opinion, so I ask others what they think. It would be DUMB to throw away a perfectly good part just because you want all new everything, well I can't afford all new everything, so I make do with what I have. My valves never floated at 4 k, what gave you that idea? What makes you think that I put anything together mechanically wrong anyways? It sounds to me Jamie that if you were in my shoes you would give up from being overwhelmed, and you would fail to create this demon I am creating. Well, I don't give up, and I know I will figure it all out soon, even sooner if morons like you wouldn't run yor mouth for no reason just to dis somebody, save it for someone who cares. I bet you'll be real pissed when someone who knows less about stangs smokes your quarter mile times here very soon, hell my last car I built myself ran 12.1's on a N/A set-up, thats pretty close to your supercharged 11.7 now isn't it? If the timeslips aren't a testament to my stang knowledge, I don't know what is, and I think I have done pretty good for only being into cars for about 4 years now. I'm a DRIVER above all else, now I need the knowledge to get me where I want, that is all.

Excuse me... I think you owe Jamie an apology. I know Jamie personally & if you knew 1/2 of what he did you wouldn't even bother asking these questions. So why don't you suck it up & grow up or you can shut your mouth & stop acting a fool. Just because you do not like an answer that someone gave you in a thread does not entitle you to bash them. End of story.

To answer you tech question, if the chain is loose it's bad. Period. It should have minimal play when installed on the motor. I don't care if it's a king kong chain, if it's loose you valve timing events will be all over the place which will affect performance /reliability/& even idle characterisitics.

NOW if you would like to repost this with out insulting anyone & keep your mind open to what more experineced people you have to say, you will learn something on this board.


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